Marketing Your Therapy Services with Word of Mouth
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[00:00:11] James Marland: hello and welcome to the Scaling Therapy Practice. This is James Marlin, your host. This is the show where we encourage you to take intentional steps towards sustainable growth. This week I'm joined by the panel, uh, of excellent podcasters. We have Lisa Mustard, Don Gabriel, and Steve
[00:00:28] James Marland: Beso. Uh, welcome to the show.
[00:00:31] Steve Bisson: everyone.
[00:00:31] Dawn Gabriel: Hi.
[00:00:32] Lisa Mustard: Hi.
[00:00:32] James Marland: Hi.
[00:00:33] James Marland: Hi. Uh, this week we're gonna talk about marketing your therapy services through word of mouth, you know, like how do you get those word of mouth referrals and what is it? But first I wanna start with a, a tool, uh, or tech or tip of the week. The tool is something I learned long ago in mental health services, uh, with customer complaints and. can do something to, uh, reduce or, uh, deal with customer complaints. Who, who here has had a customer complaint in your, uh, with your practice? Right? People raising their hand. Yeah.
[00:01:16] James Marland: And it's really discouraging if you're, you don't have a method of dealing with complaints. 'cause those complaints can then turn into the negative word of mouth that we. You know, are trying to, uh, prevent here. So how do you prevent that? Well, the, the, uh, the method I use is the heart method, and it just stands for here, empathize, apologize, respond, and thank. So, what's, uh, uh, Steve or Dawn, what was a, what's a, or Lisa, what's a common, um, customer complaint or what's a complaint that you might've received or that a therapist would receive?
[00:01:55] Steve Bisson: Well, mine is easy. It's always 'cause I'm too honest. Um, you know, like I, it was funny because I was thinking about a couple episodes ago. I finally, you know, I listened to it and I. I've never been bleeped in my life and I was believed twice in the same episode. I was like proud of myself. But that's the type of complaints I get, uh, because I'm a person that just says what I say.
[00:02:17] Steve Bisson: Not trying to hurt people, by the way, it's just how it is. Like I. You wanna get out of, you know, you wanna get, um, to be more social. Well, maybe you get off the couch. Right? Well, that's easy for you to say. I said, well, yeah, but I can't go get Acra Crane and pull you out of the the couch. You gotta choose how you're gonna motivate yourself.
[00:02:34] Steve Bisson: He wasn't helpful. He didn't tell me how to get the crane. He didn't tell. Okay. I, that's been a common complaint and I'm giving you one that's, uh, not real because I don't wanna identify anyone, which
[00:02:46] James Marland: Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah.
[00:02:47] Steve Bisson: in our field. Um, but yeah, this is definitely something that's happened with me where they complained about, I gave 'em somewhat of a idea they didn't do it, and of course that was my fault 'cause I was too directive and too mean about it.
[00:03:00] Steve Bisson: So.
[00:03:01] James Marland: So without thinking about it too hard, you know, if you use the heart method, if, if you came to me and said, James, you're, you know, you're, you're hurting my feelings, or you're, you're very, you're too direct. Uh, I would, I would say, I hear that you sa I just restate the problem. I hear that you say, I am being too direct, and it, it hurts your feelings.
[00:03:21] James Marland: And then I would empathize and, and validate their feelings. I don't have to agree with their feelings, but I would say, and that, and, uh, that sounds like that. Something you're not used to or that it hurts, it's, uh, it's painful for you to hear it in that way. And then I would apologize. Not necessarily apologize and admit wrong, but I would apologize.
[00:03:42] James Marland: I'm sorry that this has caused you distress because that is true. You don't necessarily want to, um, well in therapy, yes, you do want to cause some distress, but you know, you saw , it caused this amount of distress for you. And then respond is just like, I'll, I'll look to, into ways to say this differently.
[00:04:01] James Marland: Or let's work together, you know, can we work together so that you can hear what I'm saying? Thank you for bringing this to my attention. And often just something like that where you're not necessarily. Changing what you're doing un unless you made a, a big mistake or a big error, but you're, you're listening to them, you're validating them, you're thanking them for their input, and then you make them a part of the solution rather than what often happens is, you know, us versus them like, no, I'm not, well, this is the way I am.
[00:04:32] James Marland: Like, if you respond in that way, then the . If you put up something to resist to, they will resist. Often people resist, well, you're being too critical, and then, no, I'm not being critical, and then you, it just escalates from there. So that is the heart method of responding to customer complaints. It often, when people use this, often frontline people. Not even managers can, um, solve customer service issues before they become that one star review, you know, that you would get on Google. So definitely, um, I'll put some, I'll put some, uh, a worksheet together for the show notes that you can look at. The heart, the heart method, I'm not exactly sure who came up with it.
[00:05:22] James Marland: I, I think it was a hospital system, but. I'll see if I can cite the sources, um, and come up with that. So that is a tool, tech or tip of the week. Um, let's get into our main topic, which is word of mouth, uh, marketing through word of mouth, and, uh, you know, good reviews and those types of things. So let's just start with a, a softball question.
[00:05:44] James Marland: You know, what is word of mouth and why should you be working to generate good word of mouth?
[00:05:50] Steve Bisson: Well, that's how you get to be known in the community and known by other people. Um, you know, at the end of the day, word of mouth comes from people knowing your reputation, good or bad, really. Um, but also knowing your strengths and weaknesses from my perspective. Um, you know, I worked in the community, um.
[00:06:12] Steve Bisson: Justice field. I worked with nonprofits, I've worked with first responders, I've worked with hospitals, I've worked with just about everywhere. And what has happened is that a lot, you know, I was joking around before this interview, you know, that, um, I. You know, sometimes people don't like my style because, you know, I'm not made for, I, I don't, I, you get to know what you're good at by being word of mouth.
[00:06:36] Steve Bisson: Having people who are over 65, for me is not my strength because everyone in the community knows that anyone who's elderly, I just wanna take 'em home and take care of 'em personally. It's probably not the thera most therapeutic thing to do. Um. And I think that in, in all reality, the word of mouth has become, well, Steve does well for better or for worse with harder cases.
[00:06:56] Steve Bisson: It literally got, um, playing golf with someone. They're like, oh, you're a therapist. I hear you're like this. I have this, this family member that probably needs therapy, wasn't someone I really knew Well, and they send me someone. Lo and behold, they're like, wow. They really respect your direct access, uh, uh, approach, I should say.
[00:07:15] Steve Bisson: Um. I think that it's being yourself, that's really important, um, with the word of mouth. 'cause word of mouth. I can be kissing babies and shaking hands, but you're not in politics, you're actually just being yourself. So word of mouth is not only getting your reputation out there, but getting your true reputation out there for who you truly are.
[00:07:32] Steve Bisson: So that would be my 2 cents.
[00:07:34] James Marland: What, El what else? What el Uh, why, why would somebody want to generate word of mouth? Why shouldn't you just like, do Google ads or, why, why would somebody wanna generate positive word
[00:07:44] James Marland: of mouth for their marketing?
[00:07:46] Dawn Gabriel: Well, I think, um, for me, owning a group practice and, um, knowing the community you're in, and my community, even though it's like 80,000 people, it's, it has a smaller, small town feel and it's really big to be involved in the community. And so, um, for example, if. If someone had a death in their staff, like if that happened, they called me to come and do a grief debrief and talk through with the team and their staff about it.
[00:08:20] Dawn Gabriel: Um, and they wouldn't have known that for Google. Like I don't have that on, on my website. They just knew that I speak on mental health matters and I help . Desensitize and destigmatize the mental health in our community by just being real and honest about it and making it accessible that everyone should be in therapy.
[00:08:40] Dawn Gabriel: Um, not just um, community mental health centers, but like everywhere should be in therapy. So.
[00:08:49] James Marland: S so that, that, like how did you get known for that? Dawn? Uh, maybe I, I know we were gonna ask this a little later, but. How did you get known for, how did some random person, you know, in a, in the community know that you did those types of services without looking it up on Google or, uh, uh, I guess phone book.
[00:09:12] James Marland: I don't know if there's phone book, you know, but some sort of directory.
[00:09:14] James Marland: What,
[00:09:15] Dawn Gabriel: Yeah.
[00:09:16] James Marland: that come from?
[00:09:17] Dawn Gabriel: Yeah. So I, um, got involved in my chamber, which was The, one of the best decisions I made. Now that doesn't work for every practice. It depends again on knowing your community. Um, but the Chamber of Commerce is really big in my town. It's like a five star chamber. So that's how everyone knows everything about business it feels like in our community.
[00:09:38] Dawn Gabriel: And so I got involved on the leadership of that. I got involved in the board and uh, just started. Getting to know people. And it took me about a year or two, honestly. And now like if there's a Facebook post where someone, like on our Town talk, or even the moms of Castle Rock or, and somebody says, do you guys know a therapist?
[00:09:58] Dawn Gabriel: Or do you know a whatever, like our name of our company goes up almost all the time.
[00:10:06] James Marland: You don't do it. Somebody else
[00:10:08] Dawn Gabriel: No, someone else does it.
[00:10:10] James Marland: That's awesome.
[00:10:15] James Marland: So this, this word of mouth is sort of, is sort of like being known as Steve was saying, being known in the community for something. And as Dawn was saying, it's, it's just, it, it happens organically. Like you're not forcing people, it's almost like Wikipedia, you know, why do people post a Wikipedia?
[00:10:31] James Marland: 'cause they wanna contribute and they are, uh, they have something to share and offer and. You know, nobody, I don't think people get paid for that. I think it's still a free updated service. And, uh, and so for therapy services like therapy, you know, having therapy services or even your business services like Lisa does, you know, how do you get known for those types of things?
[00:10:57] James Marland: In the community. And I know Lisa 'cause um, you know, I heard about her for some, from somebody else's podcast. It was actually Gordon's podcast, I believe he was talking about pod courses and uh, you know, that's how I got connected with listening to her. And now we've had some podcasts together. And so I know she's like,
[00:11:19] James Marland: Marketing and ideas. She's more than that. But that's what I, when I, when somebody asks about a question about social media or marketing or, you know, CEU pod courses, I think about Lisa. She doesn't force me to do it. It just sorta happens. Um, so that's sort of the benefit of, of, uh. Word of mouth marketing.
[00:11:45] James Marland: Um, so what are, what are some ways to generate that, uh, word of mouth.
[00:11:49] Lisa Mustard: Um, and just kind of taking note to what Don was saying, I'm thinking about a particular practice here in my town and they're kind of like the, it seems like if there's ever a question in a group or I always feel like that, that, um, practice gets dropped.
[00:12:04] Lisa Mustard: And my guess is that . That person does a really good job of working with the Chamber. Um, I think that person also might be involved with like a networking group. That's just my take. That's just my guess. So that's the, I think that can work well for people too, like those, uh, BNI or you know, the networking groups.
[00:12:20] Lisa Mustard: Um, I. Also just going to events, local events for me, uh, that's been really good. Like, uh, you know, small business owners, entrepreneurs, like I, I, I love that kind of stuff. So I will go to those events and just start talking, you know, with people. As much as I am an introvert, like I will find somebody to talk to, I will, you know, seek the person out who coordinates it, just kind of introduce myself, tell them who I am and what I'm about.
[00:12:43] Lisa Mustard: You just gotta plant those seeds, just any everywhere you go. 'cause they will come back and bless you. You just gotta do it. And I'm thinking about, um, my podcast. . And with the podcast, it's like you just gotta email the person and ask 'em to come on your show. You know, you just gotta email the person and ask 'em if you can be on their show.
[00:13:01] Lisa Mustard: It's like you just have to take those, uh, you know, pick. I, I liked in the beginning, I was trying to take like five daily in intentional activities that would, you know, get my show out there and whether or that was like connecting with somebody who had a podcast, finding a guest maybe who had a bigger audience than me.
[00:13:21] Lisa Mustard: Um, . And then going into Facebook groups and sharing what I do. So, you know, word of mouth comes in a lot of different forms depending on, I guess, what you are, what your services or, or what it is that you do. Um, so I think that's important. So if you are listening to this and you don't have a practice. But you wanna practice.
[00:13:43] Lisa Mustard: This is some great advice. But if you are one, if you're listening to this and you're like, no, I'm not really interested in having a practice, but I would like to create another stream of income. I would just recommend, you know, getting curious about what you like to do, and then start networking with people who are possibly kind of doing what you wanna do and learn from them.
[00:14:02] Lisa Mustard: Because eventually they can be your network. You know, you have to put yourself in situations where it can, um, expand your opportunities, I guess.
[00:14:10] Steve Bisson: I think I go back to another thing that, to network, one of the things I noticed when I first started my private practice is isolation for therapists who work in a private practice. You have group practice a little less, but still to a certain extent that's true. But, um, when you're in a solo practice. My consultation is me in the wall.
[00:14:31] Steve Bisson: Right. And you know, I've, I, I've, I've joked someone wants to send me a joke if I'm talking to myself, don't worry, I'm having a staff meeting. Um, you know, at the end of the day, those staff meetings got really hard. So, you know, I talked to other therapists who are in private practice and we created a network, and now word of mouth is once a month.
[00:14:51] Steve Bisson: They have a, you know, I used to host it. I, after doing it for about seven years, I'm a little sick of it. Uh, not because of people, I just . That just tired. Um, so someone else is now hosting once a month. They have like a peer consultation group and everyone kind of like checks in on who has openings, who doesn't, oh, I have a client that would be a good fit for you.
[00:15:14] Steve Bisson: And this goes to other therapists that may not be there. It goes beyond that scope. So part of what I would say word of mouth is not only, um, . You know what you've known in the community, but sometimes it's creating a group that may have a common issue, which was isolation. And I'd say that, you know, if it wasn't for them, I probably would have.
[00:15:36] Steve Bisson: At least 20% less clients than I do right now. So for good or for bad. And so it's really going at, you know, you talk about being with people who are similar. I also think about what is something that everyone needs and isolation's one of those things that we all dislike. So now being able to be in that group, there's sometimes people I, which is always funny because you know, they'll say like, um,
[00:15:58] Steve Bisson: And I won't, I know Lisa, but no, le you know, Lisa Mustard referred me to you. The Hell's Lisa Mustard? Oh no, there's a therapist of a therapist who knows. Oh, oh, oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, of course. Lisa Mustard, of course. Um, she's the one with a great SEO. Um, at the end of the day. What I would say to you is that it, it, it's about sometimes also kind of like looking at what the people need in general and, uh, you know, looking at what was needed in a community in Massachusetts of private practitioners is isolation was too big.
[00:16:31] Steve Bisson: With that it create a network. I would say that there's directly 30 something therapists that we, it's just, it's not a Facebook group. It's really an email, word of mouth within our group, and we don't wanna create a Facebook group, and I don't wanna get it out of control. I find for that, for them who do that, that's great.
[00:16:49] Steve Bisson: But for us, it really has become a word of mouth and a small community that's become pretty big and gets your name out there.
[00:16:57] James Marland: That's, that's awesome. Did you start it or did somebody else
[00:17:02] Steve Bisson: Um, so it's a long story, but there was a group, and they've been on my podcast called The Mental Men, that they would have breakfast once every couple of months together. And I'm like, well, how about we expand it to mental men and women and whatever gender you identify with, it doesn't really matter to me.
[00:17:20] Steve Bisson: Um. At the end of the day, it's, it started from that idea. They thought it was a great idea. So it was just a quote, mental men for a while. But every time we expanded, expanded, like I said, it became like a group of, I don't know, 30, 40, 50 people. I don't know at this point. And sometimes you have 10 people in that room for a group consultation, and then sometimes there's two and sometimes there's 20.
[00:17:43] Steve Bisson: There's, it changes on a regular basis. But the point being is it's. It was from that idea, and for me, I think that when you think about word of mouth, we don't mentor enough in our field. We always think that it has to be paid. Um, I, while I'd like to be paid just like everyone else, if I can mentor as now, like those mental men, you know, two of 'em are over 71 is 68, 69, so I feel like my, they mentored me.
[00:18:11] Steve Bisson: So I wanna mentor people who are, you know, 20 years younger than me also, so that they can take it and mentor people in the future. And I know it's not quote paid, but it's one hell of a good word of mouth. When you say you give your time to younger pe, younger people coming up in the field. To grow, and I think that's another good word of mouth to do.
[00:18:32] James Marland: Awesome. It sounds like, uh, you're, you, there was a need and you, you. Had an idea and it kind of grew into something that is really beneficial, not just for, for, for referrals, but also it meets like that social need and also, uh, the, the mentoring need and giving back. That's, that's, that's amazing. Uh, if. If you don't have, maybe there's, uh, something like that already in your area where, uh, I guess you could just do a Google search or a Facebook search or call up some friends and see, you know, do you guys belong to any groups?
[00:19:09] James Marland: Like, how would you even get that started?
[00:19:12] Steve Bisson: Well, it's because it was hard to find. I mean there's, there's some areas, and I don't wanna speak for the whole country 'cause I don't know the whole country, but like in Chicago, there's like lots of Facebook groups that are really well established that they can grow and they can have that like organization in Boston, Metro West Area.
[00:19:32] Steve Bisson: There's nothing. I had for the searches I made. And you know what's fun is, or not fun, but I really, I think it's fun is that someone else took my idea and now expanded it to a group on Facebook where they have 400 people, which is great 'cause that if. If it help generate that for some other people, that's great.
[00:19:52] Steve Bisson: If it's, they get what they need out of it is okay. But I do, I said Chicago because I know that for a fact, but I know I'm sure that like the bigger metropolitan areas like you know, Miami, uh, New York, la, Dallas, I'm sure that there's some of those. But once you move from those bigger ones and you go like secondary markets like Min Minneapolis or, and I'm not trying to pick on them Seattle or Memphis or whatever.
[00:20:18] Steve Bisson: They probably need some sort of like that. And maybe you don't find 'em, maybe you create it and you know, as, uh, to quote the field of dreams. If you build it,
[00:20:26] Steve Bisson: they will come.
[00:20:29] Dawn Gabriel: I would just second that 'cause we, we did something like that here in our smaller town. 'cause we're . Denver's an hour away, but we're still, we still have plenty of people and there were a ton of therapists. So I actually went on Psychology Today and looked up therapists and emailed them and invited them.
[00:20:48] Dawn Gabriel: I did a similar thing. We created a CAS rock therapist network and we did, um, . Like free trainings once a month. And then we noticed that they wanted more connections, so we'd alternate it like training one month and then just getting together to eat lunch and talk the next month. Um, but it's, and something that happened out of that is, again, we just did it 'cause we saw a need and I wanted it too.
[00:21:12] Dawn Gabriel: I wanted to be around other therapists, but, um, . Word of mouth. Like one of the, one of the therapists, when she went on maternity leave, she called me and said, Hey, can I refer all my clients to your center for three months while I'm on maternity leave? And so I didn't start the, the, uh, group so that she would do that.
[00:21:31] Dawn Gabriel: It just happened because you're being authentic, you're meeting a need and you're just . Enjoying what you're doing, so I just wanna put that out there too. It's like sometimes you just do what you like to do or do, do what you are seeing a need for and things will happen out of that, it's, I think going back to just being more authentic is also a good point.
[00:21:52] James Marland: Uh, that's really awesome. Uh, we've talked a lot about, uh, marketing with like professional networks and things. Um, in the past episodes people have talked about like doing community service events or reaching out into the community to kind of get their name out there. Has anybody done one that was successful or if it wasn't successful, you know, you could tell about that and say what, what didn't work?
[00:22:20] James Marland: Uh, has anybody done a community event to reach out into the community? And
[00:22:24] James Marland: what, what was it?
[00:22:27] Dawn Gabriel: Yeah, we um, we have a bunch of community events. Uh, well there's a couple different ones. We have a lot of like races, like five Ks in our area and they often offer booths that you can do. You can rent a booth. And so some of it is brand awareness, but you just pay like a couple hundred bucks and you sit and hand out.
[00:22:45] Dawn Gabriel: Well, we hand out chapsticks at, uh, races 'cause everyone loves that and . Um, we have some signage, but I think the cool thing is, is when we're there, um, I people come up and they're like, oh my gosh. Um, I go, I'm a client of so-and-so's at your practice, or My daughter knows a friend who's went to your practice.
[00:23:06] Dawn Gabriel: Like, I feel like people start knowing your brand awareness at those events. Um, but also we've done stuff like when, I mean on it's through the chamber, but when they need, um, . Manpower to put an event on. Like, I, I usually volunteer my time to go set up and tear down or, uh, just man, the event too is being there and helping and giving back.
[00:23:31] Dawn Gabriel: We also do something called the angel tree. I. Type of thing where we have this group of apartments that has a lot of more seniors that live there and they don't have a lot of family around. So we partner and give Christmas gifts to them. But honestly, I don't do that for word of mouth. I doubt they're telling anyone about us , but it's just like, get involved with the needs of your community is
[00:23:55] Dawn Gabriel: the main point.
[00:23:57] James Marland: but, but you found a cause that connects to your heart, right? Like it means something to you. You're not doing, doing it 'cause Oh, I'm gonna mark it. You're doing it because.
[00:24:07] James Marland: I can serve a need in the community and I am aligned with this cause, and I, you know, you'd do it, you'd do it even if it wasn't
[00:24:17] Dawn Gabriel: Yeah.
[00:24:18] James Marland: quote unquote marketing.
[00:24:20] James Marland: But, uh, that's, that's amazing. Uh, um, anybody else have a, a story?
[00:24:27] Steve Bisson: I mean, my, the only thing I would say is that there was a, um, a 5K Turkey trott that we have all around the Northeast, um, on Thanksgiving Day, and I, I had pro I, I had sponsored one of them, so there was a nice little finding your way through therapy podcasts on all the shirts. I'm not saying I got a tremendous bump, but I know that I've noticed that my numbers went slightly up in regards to that.
[00:24:55] Steve Bisson: And some people have come to me and said, oh, you're the guy with the podcast. So sometimes it's like even getting a promotion on the T-shirt. When you're running behind someone, you, you start scrolling through the, because you don't have your phone, so you scroll through people's backs and you're like, oh, you get curious around that.
[00:25:11] Steve Bisson: Um, so I, I think that that's what happens too. So I would say that, that that would be one of my community interventions that worked. Uh, the ones that did not work is, um, when they put a nice little sign at a golf charity, I. With my podcast and I saw nothing and never received nothing and couldn't care less.
[00:25:32] Steve Bisson: And at one point I'm like, Hey, can you send me at least a picture of what the hell you did? And, uh, they didn't. So, um, yeah, it was kind of like a waist, but, you know, a T-shirt lasts at least for a couple, at least for one race, and some people will wear 'em again. So if they're scrolling your back, I guess you, you can, you can get a little bit of out of that.
[00:25:51] Steve Bisson: And that's a little more permanent in my opinion. It's a little more, more than an event.
[00:25:56] James Marland: I, I, I keep those T-shirts. I don't know, I don't know about you, but I definitely, when I go to those types of events, I def they, they go into the drawer and I, I do wear them. So, uh, and I, and I like it. I like it. So what, what that golf course people, they just called you up and said, Hey, would you sponsor this?
[00:26:14] James Marland: Is that the
[00:26:15] Steve Bisson: Yeah, it was a, it was, um, one of the first responders groups that I've dealt with before. Uh, you know, and again, I support them. You know, as you guys, if you, you've heard me hear, or on my podcast, I'm a big fan. Um, I. And then after that it was nothing. Not even a phone call, not even a thank you at the, as much as I'm gonna be a little business-like here, but you know, when you do that stuff, Hey, where's my uh, 5 0 3 C or whatever charity donation, and I had to.
[00:26:46] Steve Bisson: Get it on. I got on like, I'm not even joking, like April 10th or 12th of that year, like, you know, oh yeah, I got two weeks to put on my taxes. It wasn't like a huge amount of money, but still it kind of sucks to have to wait till then to get something and you're hoping to just help the cause and they really didn't help back in return.
[00:27:03] Steve Bisson: And I didn't name any names because hey, they'll, they'll sync themselves anyway.
[00:27:09] James Marland: Now you, you did say you, Steve, you did say you were recently, you did some teaching, right? Like
[00:27:17] Steve Bisson: Yeah, so you know, it, it was interesting because I got a phone call from, um, the county sheriff and saying, I hear you work with first responders, and I'm like, . True. And I'm like, please don't gimme referrals. I have no space. Um, they're like, no, we're actually, we're working on educating, uh, police officers for the CIT model, uh, which is basically police officers learning more about mental health, being more aware of that, and I, we were wondering if you'd be willing to teach.
[00:27:49] Steve Bisson: A couple hours. So that's, I actually did that this morning. It was really fun. And explaining mental health and having real stories because I've been in the community with first responders or people in the community justice system for the last, you know, 15, 20 years. And it's interesting because I'm sure that.
[00:28:06] Steve Bisson: One of them already called and said, oh, I just wanna put you in my phone in case I need, you know, a referral or whatever. And I'm like, okay, you could have just put it in without calling me, but thank you. I appreciate that. Um, but at the end of the day, it's, um, I. It's good to have that type of stuff because again, the person that referred me, which is I guess my friend, my friend Catherine, who we've, someone I met through the group again that we created, and I met her accidentally in that group.
[00:28:34] Steve Bisson: Literally, this is how word of mouth work. I didn't know her until we had the group. We got closer. She turned around and probably told the Middlesex County people here in Massachusetts about me. They call me, they, you know, pay me to run some classes and they wanna put me in permanently with their teaching around that subject.
[00:28:52] Steve Bisson: So again, this is not something I sought out. It's not something I'm like, yay, I'll make money out of this. This was just accidental and it turns out to be this way. I mean, it's just how it is. I mean, if you really think about it, even this podcast here is all based on word of mouth, because you know, ultimately you were all strangers to me three years ago.
[00:29:15] James Marland: Yep. Somebody, somebody said, you are your network. I don't know if that, here, I see people shaking your heads, but uh, you know, your business is your network and, uh, that some of this word of mouth stuff has proven it. Um. So, oh, uh, the one thing I wanted to say, IRA, I forget his last name, Hayes. Is it Ira Hayes?
[00:29:39] James Marland: Uh, he, he, he spoke when he was on our podcast, I think it was on social media. He was talking about He was talking about, uh, he did, uh, he has anx, um, I believe it's anxiety, working with kids with anxiety. And, uh, he goes into schools and does that sort of thing and he can help those people the best, the quickest.
[00:30:01] James Marland: The fastest. And so he focuses on those and he. And, uh, he go seeks out, or maybe they seek him out now for helping them with those types of teaching things. And I bet there is a group for every therapist or every, uh, person who has a ser a therapy service that I. There is a group you can connect with that you can help and generate value to them to get your name out there and build those networks and connections.
[00:30:29] James Marland: So, um, it just, as you were talking about first responders, it reminded me there's other stories about that for them. All right. Uh, before we wrap up, uh, I. Is there anyone that has a, a, uh, some advice on, let's say you're, you're, you got a negative review or some sort of like, customer service problem that is threatening to, you know, derail some of your positive stuff.
[00:30:59] James Marland: Uh, how, how is there anything you can do to, um, address the situation and mitigate the, uh, the, the problem? What do you do with negative word of mouth?
[00:31:15] Steve Bisson: I, again, Ben and Jerry's, but I'm guessing that's not what you're talking about.
[00:31:21] Steve Bisson: Getting
[00:31:22] James Marland: know what that means.
[00:31:24] Steve Bisson: big tub of ice cream,
[00:31:25] James Marland: Getting ice cream. Oh. And cry and like and self-pity. Cry yourself
[00:31:31] Steve Bisson: But I guess that's not what you're
[00:31:32] James Marland: Yes. No, that's not what I'm going for.
[00:31:36] Steve Bisson: but no, I think that it's, you know. If you're gonna be in the public in any way, shape, or form, any type of public eye, even on the minimal level of what we do, you're gonna get negative reviews. If you expect yourself to be the cup of tea of everyone, you're just lying to yourself, frankly.
[00:31:54] Steve Bisson: Um, I. You know, I'm, I'm lucky if I'm the cup of tea of 70% of people. Uh, and that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. So for the negative reviews, I realized, you know, like I don't, what I do to mitigate it is I understand that I cannot be liked by everyone. Something that I've accepted, I. Off and on for most of the last 10 to 15 years.
[00:32:17] Steve Bisson: And I think that having the private practice only accelerated that. Do I still react? Like, you know, I recently got a review on my, uh, podcast. You're dirty or something like that and gave me a one star review. Yeah, it still pinches a little bit. I actually know where that comes from and I will also, I can tell you off air, I'm not putting anyone on blast here ever on a podcast.
[00:32:39] Steve Bisson: Um, but yeah. Did it pinch a little bit? Of course it did. Then I realized where it came from and I also realized that there's a reason why I'm not everyone's cup of tea. Then I kinda like let it go. It, it's not about always being positive. I think it's the, the, at the end of the day, if I want. Lisa just saying positive things about me or Dawn or James.
[00:32:58] Steve Bisson: At one point, I'm gonna be really, really miserable 'cause that's not how life works. And so maybe my realistic view of the world is what brings me to it. But you're gonna have negative reviews whether you like it or not. And so it's either accepting for what they are or panicking beyond belief. And you're not gonna fix it.
[00:33:16] Steve Bisson: You're just gonna make things worse for yourself because you're gonna change who you are or you're gonna say something stupid.
[00:33:22] Lisa Mustard: Yeah. And, and I, I don't have a practice, so I go back to that again. I haven't, you know, gotten feedback that way. I have gotten feedback about my podcast, which has, I got this, I've gotten some emails where, you know, I read the emails and it was a take on value. It was just different take on values. Like we just had different values and I thought, you know what?
[00:33:42] Lisa Mustard: I don't think that me responding to this email is going to do anything but make me feel better about . No, you my, val, you know you're wrong. I'm right. Um, so I just didn't even bother explaining the feedback I got from a friend was, I don't think this person is open to, they just wanted to tell you that you're wrong and you need to, you know, you need to look at it from this perspective, but I don't see it from that perspective.
[00:34:08] Lisa Mustard: So I thought I'm just, I'm just gonna leave it alone. I mean, and if that person left me a review, it's like, okay. Either I can't do anything about it. I'm gonna be the right cup of tea, like Steve said, for the right tea drinker. And that's just how it is. Like that's life, like he said. And, and it's hard pill to swallow because I, you know, there's a little bit of me that's a people pleaser, I think.
[00:34:30] Lisa Mustard: I feel like I've worked on that over the years. But, um, and also you have to go back to, as a therapist in private practice, I'm just kind of going back there. You can't address it on an online, uh, public forum because then you give away. Their confidentiality or the un it's, it's very crazy about, crazy in the sense of they can bash you, but if you respond to it, then you give away any type of confidentiality or anonymity, I guess that is, I don't know, is it HIPAA protected?
[00:35:00] Lisa Mustard: I don't even know. Privacy protected. But anyway, I mean, I'm speaking about something that I don't have experience with. I know Don could probably speak to that, but yes, I mean, . So for me it was about values and I was like, I'm not even gonna try to explain myself to this person because they don't wanna hear it.
[00:35:17] Lisa Mustard: They've already made up their mind. I could tell in their, in their message to me.
[00:35:20] James Marland: But it sounds like you did something very important is you got some, like a reality check from a friend you trusted, right? Like, Hey, is this, is this right? Is this true? Should I accept any of this? And they, they kind of gave you the truth that if we just sat with it without anybody speaking into it, we could end up responding. Negatively, or we could end up lashing out or we could end up not doing anything about it and just sort of like sitting with it and letting it fester and eat away at it. Um, Dawn, Lisa mentioned you, maybe you have a little bit of experience of like people, like clients or something responding and you can't
[00:36:03] James Marland: Like you can't respond to them. So what do you, what do you do then? Do you just not say anything? Do you say thank you for whatever, contact the office?
[00:36:12] James Marland: What? What can you do?
[00:36:13] Dawn Gabriel: Um, well, I've heard that you could, yeah, you're not supposed to directly respond, but you can post something like, Hey, our policy on X, Y, Z is this. If anyone has any questions, feel free to reach out. Or you can also ask a bunch of. Other people, like other therapists to go on and leave more positive reviews so that your ratings go higher.
[00:36:38] Dawn Gabriel: Um, I've heard both that, but you can't respond directly to that client. Um, you can just say, yeah, I don't even know if you can say, I'm sorry that happened. I don't think you can do that. Even you, you just can say, our policy is this. Here's our website or something. I don't know. Um,
[00:36:57] James Marland: Well, we're not, we're not lawyers. So if there's a lawyer listening to this, you can, uh, reach out to us or, you know, if you have that issue in your place, please consult your. Your legal advice, but we, we definitely know you can't address, you know, air their dirty laundry in a public forum. That would be a big, big no-No, I do like the idea of asking your friends, you know, and the people, your network to say, Hey, I had this negative review.
[00:37:26] James Marland: Can you help me? Can you help me out? I've had somebody do that to me for me recently, and I'm like, oh yeah, I've worked with this person and, and, and I didn't. Uh, I just wrote, you know, they're, they're a great professional person to work with, you know, and it gave 'em a five star review. So I think that's something I.
[00:37:43] James Marland: If you have friends in the uh, therapy world, whether you're providing a service, you know, therapy, service or services to them, one thing you can do just to be a good neighbor is rate . Rate their show, rate, their podcast, rate, their service. Go to Google my business and, uh. Say they are professionals in every sense of the way, and I trust them with X, Y, Z, and this give them a good review.
[00:38:07] James Marland: I think we can all help each other with that. All right. Let's, uh, let's wrap up the episode with one thing you want the, the, the, uh, audience to take away. What's one thing you want them to take with 'em from the episode? Uh, we'll go, uh, Steve, Don, Lisa. So Steve, what's, uh, what's one thing to take away
[00:38:23] Steve Bisson: That I gotta go write reviews for Don, Lisa, and you. Uh, that, that's probably one of the takeaways.
[00:38:30] James Marland: two. Two thumbs up, two thumbs up.
[00:38:34] Steve Bisson: but I also think that, you know, I, and I know it's just been said, but I think it's something that. I tend to forget myself. So the good reminder of asking a good friend or someone you trust, Hey, what do you think of this? And I got this bad review or whatever. And then, you know, as, uh, probably not as kosher as I probably want it to sound, but it's talking me off the, the ledge, so to speak, to make sure, you know, I get a little less upset about it.
[00:39:04] James Marland: Great. And,
[00:39:06] James Marland: uh, Don, what's one thing the, uh, the audience take away?
[00:39:09] Dawn Gabriel: Yeah, I actually wrote down Lisa's idea of, um, going on to Facebook groups, or I think she said, having a plan of like five touches a day or just making a plan, like, how am I going to get my word of mouth out there? Find something you enjoy and make a plan to do it.
[00:39:30] Lisa Mustard: Yeah. Oh. Um, I was just thinking about networking and it's like, like Don was just saying, if you wanna network, you have to do it. So figure out what feels comfortable for you and know that maybe the first time you go or the first thing you, you try isn't gonna be the ticket, but it's definitely you're getting, you know.
[00:39:48] Lisa Mustard: More comfortable doing it. And then the next thing might be the ticket. I mean, I was just trying to think of like networking and how, how it's opened up opportunities for me that I didn't even see coming and, and I was reflecting on it as a lot of, as a lot. The episode went on and, you know, I, I was
[00:40:03] Lisa Mustard: Somebody, I can't even remember how it happened, but they reached out to me and they said, Hey, can you create courses for our company since you have the um, credential? And I was like, sure, who are you? ? So, you know, like whatever you're doing, you gotta put it out there that you're doing it. So just know that if you keep all your good stuff to yourself, no one's ever gonna know.
[00:40:22] Lisa Mustard: So you have to go out and share your good stuff with. I mean, I always say all the time, you gotta go out and share your good stuff with the world, and you just never know how it's gonna. Come back and, and bless you and what it is that you do. So start small, but definitely start. You gotta do it. You gotta
[00:40:37] James Marland: Hmm.
[00:40:37] Lisa Mustard: it.
[00:40:39] James Marland: Start, I'm writing that down. Start small, but you gotta start . Okay. So, so my, my takeaway was just a recap of everybody. I just wrote down network, network, network. Like, uh, I've been networking at conferences, but I, I've sort of shied away from doing things locally. I'm, I'm more of an introvert than I would like to admit, and so it's more difficult for me to be like, Hey, everybody, look.
[00:41:05] James Marland: Talk here I am like, uh, so, um, but it, it's been mentioned to me over and over again, you know, get involved in some local networks and, uh, try to do that and just Steve's story about something that I. He, he provided a service or a need or added value turned into, you know, something that not only meets his needs, but meets other people's needs.
[00:41:30] James Marland: And it's, it's just this amazing thing. And so, um, yeah, uh, I, uh, local networks and getting involved and adding value is my takeaway. Alright, so, uh, thanks everybody for listening to the show. We will see you next time.
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