From Burnout to Balance: The Heart-Centered Approach to Having your Dream Life and Business | STP64
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[00:00:10] James Marland: Hello, and welcome to the Scaling Therapy Practice. This is your host, James Marland. This is the show where we empower mission driven helpers to launch life changing online courses and content. I'm really excited to have, uh, one of my mentors
[00:00:25] James Marland: here.
[00:00:25] James Marland: with me today, Joey Ragona.
[00:00:27] James Marland: Joey, do you different Ragona? Hello, Joey. Welcome to the
[00:00:29] James Marland: show.
[00:00:30] Joey Ragona: it. Hey, good, good to be here. Thank you for for reaching out. I'm I'm super excited to talk to you and your amazing listeners. And I I love what you just said. It was, was it mission driven? They can repeat that again, because that
[00:00:42] Joey Ragona: was like,
[00:00:43] James Marland: it's the show that we empower, so it's my action word, empower mission driven helpers, healers, coaches, like that, mission
[00:00:52] James Marland: driven people, people who are on a mission. I love helping people who
[00:00:56] James Marland: are going
[00:00:56] James Marland: somewhere,
[00:00:57] James Marland: uh.
[00:00:58] Joey Ragona: I love that.
[00:00:58] James Marland: realized I couldn't, I've worked in the therapy world for like 18, 20 years, but I couldn't be a therapist because I struggle with a victim mentality.
[00:01:09] James Marland: People who are just stuck in that, like the energy to move them from victim to
[00:01:15] James Marland: agency. It's probably something I struggle with. So it's hard to help other people out of it. And so I love mission driven people. And then what are they trying to do? They're trying to, like, fulfill their mission and what I, what I can do is help people launch
[00:01:31] James Marland: courses with it.
[00:01:31] James Marland: So that's, uh, that's, uh, that's my, that's my mission.
[00:01:36] Joey Ragona: I love it. I love it. Mission driven
[00:01:38] Joey Ragona: is, is, you know, that's a
[00:01:39] Joey Ragona: big part of my life
[00:01:41] Joey Ragona: too, you know,
[00:01:41] Joey Ragona: so we're on the same path here.
[00:01:43] James Marland: Yeah. Well, there's a lot of overlap when, uh, one of the things I loved about you and going through your courses is just how you explain things that were on my heart, but they were You're down the road further, you know, you're, you've, you've thought about it. You've lived it. You've made it work. Um, just a little bit of introduction and you can take it off from there is, uh, I met, um, I started the Kajabi platform and they started offering all these webinars and 1 of them was dream client connection or dream.
[00:02:14] James Marland: I think it's called dream client connection. And I was like, yes, I want dream clients. Let me sign up for that. So I signed up for it. And that's where I met Joey and he opened. my eyes to the world of having a business that you run instead of it running you. And so that's my introduction. Um, if you've been listening to the podcast at all, you've probably hear me mention Joey probably 50 times.
[00:02:42] James Marland: So here he is, Joey. Uh,
[00:02:45] James Marland: can you,
[00:02:46] Joey Ragona: I'm honored.
[00:02:46] James Marland: Yeah. Can you just explain your story and how you started,
[00:02:50] James Marland: um, the dream client, uh, dream client connection and, and your, your universe
[00:02:54] James Marland: there.
[00:02:56] Joey Ragona: Yeah, so, um, just to correct you, is
[00:02:58] Joey Ragona: the,
[00:02:59] Joey Ragona: uh, the
[00:02:59] Joey Ragona: DreamClient, um, workshop, the DreamCustomer workshop is the one we do on Kajabi. DreamClient Connection is a short introduction to my world of Atlas. Uh, so because you're in it, you know, those names are all cross referenced within the whole ecosystem. And, uh, The quick story is that, you know, um, for many years, I started online officially in 20, in 2012, and then put my first product out in 2014.
[00:03:21] Joey Ragona: And so between 2014 and basically 2020, that was six years of me struggling, just trying to get everything together and going through multiple, multiple courses and, and literally almost 200, 000 of investing and marketing and products and you name it, masterminds and all that and coaches. And, uh, I learned a lot.
[00:03:42] Joey Ragona: Like I really did learn a lot. And the final three, uh, years between 2016 and 19 were the, were the hardest for me because that's when I completely moved into another area of, you know, it's popularized now bro marketing, more aggressive type of marketing. And I thought that I was missing something because everything else I was doing was not really working.
[00:04:03] Joey Ragona: So the business was kind of okay. So I, as you know, me, like I dive in a thousand percent. I'm like, okay, this is what I'm doing and I'm going to focus on it. So I did that for three years. And during those three years, my heart and my head were, were truly fighting. It was a very painful time of my life, harder than the first, uh, what two or three years of, of it just being an okay business.
[00:04:26] Joey Ragona: And that That pinpointing piece of my life said, Joey, you're not doing this the right way. You're not leading from your heart anymore, even though all of these other things might work for somebody else. It's not going to work for you. And so I basically went broke and Just enough to carry my Kajabi membership and that was basically it, right?
[00:04:48] Joey Ragona: So it wasn't the absolute zero and I had no money and all that stuff but it it felt like there was nothing there and that's when I just changed my change the way I looked at everything and It was, who are the people that I want in my life? I don't want, I don't want to force people. I don't want to convince people.
[00:05:06] Joey Ragona: I don't want to do any of the, any of that stuff. Because even though I'm really great at writing copy and I've learned, I've been in copy for over 40 years and then marketing. I know all the NLP stuff. I know all the stuff that I could do, but it just was manipulative to me. I didn't want to do that anymore.
[00:05:21] Joey Ragona: I just wanted to be, to have people who are like my friends. And that's where it all started. And, and I started talking about that and people thought I was crazy. They say, cause I found that there was two camps. There was like, you can't be friends with your clients. You can't do that. It's impossible. Or there was, yes, you can, because that's how I grew up with my dad.
[00:05:41] Joey Ragona: And I, and I knew it for a fact because I saw it, I lived it all my life. And I said, well, if my dad could do it, and this is what happened with him. Then I could do it too. And so that's where it all began. And I started crafting the idea of what a dream client is, which is like this perfect person. Like we all have that, you know, that little game, like if you can crap the perfect woman or the crap, the perfect man, and what, like, what would it be?
[00:06:04] Joey Ragona: Like, and I thought, why can't we do this with a perfect. Uh, a client and the customer. And as you know, you've been through this and sometimes I would say almost every time our heads get in the way. Like, okay, I understand this concept, but there's, and you start writing all these dream client DNA attributes and all these things, you're like, no way.
[00:06:24] Joey Ragona: There's nobody who's going to be like this. And that's where the challenge is. But that's when the breakthrough also happens because we, yeah, we may not get the absolute perfect person, but it's more like, what if we get as close as possible to this? How would our life look like? And, and this person is something that I want to be with and, and help.
[00:06:42] Joey Ragona: Like you just said, the mission driven people, all these things that I just want to hang out with and the money and the business and all that is kind of secondary, even though it's really important. It's more about who are the people that I want to hang out with for
[00:06:54] Joey Ragona: 25 years of my life.
[00:06:55] James Marland: Yeah. The, uh, the illustration that really sunk it for me was the bus illustration, or you're going on a journey illustration. Uh, and you invite people who want to go to the destination, like you're, you know how to get to the destination. And so you invite people. Who also want to go to that destination and you know, you can help them, but more than that, and maybe you can explain this a little bit more, but more than that, you, they want to go with you and you want to take them and you have like a party might be too strong of a word, but you have a real, a much better time because you are
[00:07:34] James Marland: going with the right people and they are going with you.
[00:07:38] James Marland: Did I explain it all
[00:07:39] Joey Ragona: 100 percent Yeah, you, you nailed it. I mean, you just
[00:07:43] Joey Ragona: sparked
[00:07:43] Joey Ragona: another analogy or or to, to extend that analogy for me, because it like that bus route is like, if you're that bus driver and you're driving to, you know, I use the Las Vegas thing, you're going to Las Vegas, MGM grand casino thing. That's the destination.
[00:07:57] Joey Ragona: Everybody knows why they want to go there. And. The people that are getting on that bus, uh, all have different stories and why they're going. But the destination is important. It's the same for them. So it doesn't matter. Do they want to pay off a loan? Did they want to just make money and buy a new car?
[00:08:12] Joey Ragona: Like
[00:08:12] Joey Ragona: it doesn't matter
[00:08:13] James Marland: Was it their dream vacation? Was it like they, they liked the lights. Was it, do they wanna see a show? They just know they wanna go to that, that Los Las Vegas. And even specifically, sometimes you, you've even said they wanna go to a specific hotel. You know how to get them to
[00:08:31] James Marland: the front door of that
[00:08:33] James Marland: hotel.
[00:08:33] James Marland: Mm-Hmm.
[00:08:34] Joey Ragona: That's right. And so the, the extended analogy that
[00:08:37] Joey Ragona: I just dreamed up of as you were listening to you is that if you're the bus driver and you totally enjoy that route all the time, like you're driving constantly back to Las Vegas and back to the other end of the country and picking up people and going again.
[00:08:51] Joey Ragona: So not only is the scenery and all that stuff in the drive, like exciting for you, it charges your batteries, but the people that are getting on the bus all the time, the gen, the conversations are. Yeah. They're almost the same, but they're different at the same time, but they're all generally around the same topic or ideas or things, just like we're talking about now.
[00:09:11] Joey Ragona: Cause I can talk about, as you know, dream clients 24 seven and I'll never, never have anything not to say. So, and I'm excited about it. So those that's the analogy is like, Who are those people that you can imagine yourself driving for 25 years from one end of the country to the, to the other end and back picking up people along the way and doing the same thing again and again and again, like a good groundhog day.
[00:09:34] Joey Ragona: What would that be like for you? And that to me is like an ultimate business. Ultimate.
[00:09:42] James Marland: Um,
[00:09:44] James Marland: The
[00:09:45] James Marland: the ultimate groundhog day, or you, you, in the course, you talked about the ultimate week. Like, what is your ultimate week? Like, living that same week
[00:09:56] James Marland: over and over again and loving it. You know, and just designing your
[00:10:02] James Marland: business around that dream, that dream week, the dream business.
[00:10:08] Joey Ragona: yeah, because that's how my life is now. I'm thankful that I'm like, I'm living what I'm actually teaching. And and one of the cool things about what we do, and you know, this already is that I believe that we need to not only have the expertise, but the experience as well. Are we living the oasis? I call that the oasis.
[00:10:29] Joey Ragona: What's the ultimate thing where your dream client wants to get to? What's that? For what you can help them with. Cause there's a journey after the fact of, of when you get them to the oasis that you can get them to, there's another piece. Um, so what does that look like? And if you haven't reached that yet, you don't know how it feels and you can't describe it in a way that helps in your marketing, right?
[00:10:50] Joey Ragona: We always look at that. Like how, what are the, what are the words that can use in marketing? The only way to do that is not only to do the research and see what they're saying, but also that you've already lived it and we have to be able to describe that. Yeah. So it's super important for, for us to live that.
[00:11:05] Joey Ragona: So I'm living that ultimate life, which is. Really, it's an amazing life, but more importantly to what you said, I think that needs to be said is the fact that it's a, it's a, I can use the word boring, but it's not really boring. It's simple. I don't have to think about it. I don't have to think about my life.
[00:11:22] Joey Ragona: I don't have to worry about getting up and, and picking up my phone and going, what am I going to do now? Or how do I react to this? It's basically the same thing again and again and again. But it's like, it's supercharged all the time. It's like, it's kind of like I'm plugging in my charger like every day and I'm getting charged up all the way through the day.
[00:11:40] Joey Ragona: And that's like an amazing feeling. And I'm already
[00:11:43] Joey Ragona: waking up charged.
[00:11:44] James Marland: Yeah, I,
[00:11:45] Joey Ragona: at the end of the
[00:11:46] James Marland: and it shows up in your work, it showed up in your courses, it shows up when you talk to
[00:11:50] James Marland: people on the groups that I see you.
[00:11:54] James Marland: in. Like, you just enjoy what you're doing and you're trying to get people to think a little bit sometimes with some of your comments and not just, you don't have to do the, you called it bro marketing.
[00:12:08] James Marland: Uh, stuff where there's deadlines
[00:12:10] James Marland: and I don't know, what's it, what's the, what's, what's something that's onerous to you about bro
[00:12:16] James Marland: marketing?
[00:12:20] Joey Ragona: It's that, it's that mentality. it's there's a couple of things. The mentality is, let me, let me sum it up this way then I'll expand on it if you want to. Um, In some of the, there was one or two things that come to mind that I won't mention any names, but there was masterminds in places where it was, where the mentality was, get them on your email list any way possible.
[00:12:45] Joey Ragona: And, Send them an email every day that sells them something. And they're either going to do one of two things. They're either going to buy or they're going to opt out. And that's bro mentality. It's like, there's not, the only reason my email list exists is to sell you something. Now I agree that our email list is, is a very lucrative piece of the business, right?
[00:13:08] Joey Ragona: We don't, we can't run the business without it. Uh, and it's very lucrative. That's where you sell. Yes. But not to the degree of like every email has to be, you know, A sale. And if you don't like it, get off my list. And it's more of the expectation of, you know, like an opt in a lead magnet goes to a, whatever, to another seat, email sequence.
[00:13:29] Joey Ragona: And the expectation was I need to make as much money off of this person immediately as fast as possible, because either I was spending money on an ad and they need to double that ad revenue or, or at least pay for the ad revenue, all these things. And I get it. I get it. That's, I guess it's smart business.
[00:13:48] Joey Ragona: You don't want to spend all this money, right. And not, not make any money right away. But for me, if this didn't work, it was like my peeps just didn't want to be pressured. And I don't want to be pressured. So I didn't like it. And I knew so that I guess related back to my list. And that was the catalyst for me.
[00:14:10] Joey Ragona: It was like, that's what I don't want to do anything that is aggressive at all whatsoever. You can nudge people, you can challenge them a little bit, but after they love you and after they trust you and you have this bond, like, like
[00:14:23] Joey Ragona: a friend, right? James,
[00:14:24] Joey Ragona: like a
[00:14:24] James Marland: Oh, yeah.
[00:14:25] Joey Ragona: you and I are, are friends. I could push you and you'll
[00:14:29] Joey Ragona: know that it's not
[00:14:29] Joey Ragona: from.
[00:14:30] Joey Ragona: This dagger piece that I just want more money from you. It's that I really truly want to help you. And sometimes you need to be challenged. You need to be right confronted with the hard truth. But do you take that to
[00:14:42] Joey Ragona: heart?
[00:14:43] James Marland: Well, it's because I think you, you built a relationship. This is the thing I think that sets this type of marketing apart. Different is it, you built a relationship, you helped me, you answered my questions. We weren't even. I didn't even give you any money, you know, and you, and you were, you know, responding to my Facebook posts or, uh, when I went through your dream client, uh, sorry if I got the name wrong, but I went through your webinar, the free webinar.
[00:15:10] James Marland: And then you're like, would you like another free webinar? And I'm like, yes, because I really connected with this guy and what he's talking about, because I don't like the pressure marketing either. I want to, I want, I want to support people until they're ready to. You know, pay for the, go for the next leg of the journey.
[00:15:33] Joey Ragona: That's right.
[00:15:33] James Marland: And I think that's, that's part of what you teach about respecting the customer's journey. Like everybody's on a journey and not everybody needs to buy in 90 days, you know, or whatever, whatever the, the, the, the, uh, the stats tell you. You know, people don't buy in 90 days. They're never going to buy. I don't think, I don't think that's true when you're, when you're really developed that relationship and it showed up for you and your emails and then your group postings and, and there were, you know, even during the group, sometimes I would ask you extra questions and you're like, let me make this video for you.
[00:16:10] James Marland: You know, who does that? Like it's, you do it for your friends, you know, you do it for the group. You do it for the people that you are, you want them to get to their just destination, just as much as they want to get to their destination. You're not
[00:16:24] James Marland: just the, the bus driver. You're like the party
[00:16:26] James Marland: bus driver. Like you want people
[00:16:28] James Marland: to have,
[00:16:29] James Marland: get there.
[00:16:30] James Marland: And that's how it, that's how it, showed
[00:16:32] James Marland: up for
[00:16:32] James Marland: me.
[00:16:34] Joey Ragona: Thank you, man. And you know, there's for anybody listening, it's, you know, sometimes I'm challenged by this because, uh, somebody will say, well, you're, you're expecting them. They're doing this for a reason. You're where you have people on your list because you want to sell them something or you're helping in groups because you want to sell them things.
[00:16:51] Joey Ragona: And, and. At the ultimate end of it, the big picture is, yeah, of course, I truly do want to help people that I'm, that I'm talking to, however, there's a difference, there's a difference between expectation and hope and, you know, getting them to a place where I hope they do choose me to help them because I truly do care about them.
[00:17:10] Joey Ragona: But they don't expect it. And there's a difference. Cause I used to expect that I used to go into those emails every day and send them in 2016 to 19 and expecting someone to click on that link, to go to my page with the countdown timer and give me money or whatever it was, and I, I just let go of all expectation, even when I get on clarity calls and all these other things, uh, I just don't have an expectation.
[00:17:37] Joey Ragona: It's like, how can I answer something for you today? How can I move the needle for you? Or let you have a breakthrough or an aha moment? Sometimes James, yes, that might lead to a sale right then and there. For me in my world, it rarely happens. So I'm not the guy who brings people in and like, how am I going to convert people today?
[00:17:55] Joey Ragona: It's never on my mind. It used to be on my mind because I used to have the conversion, you know, cheat notes and all that stuff. All the objection notes and all that stuff on my other monitor and the conversation just never went anywhere. And now, as long as, as soon as I let go of every expectation, everything changed. And it was more of a hope. And so for you in that, in that example is like, Oh, I do hope James gets what I'm talking about here and hires me sooner or later. Right. That's of course it's in the back of my mind, but it's not like, well, I'm going to go shoot this video now and then he's going to watch it and then I'm going to send them another email.
[00:18:34] Joey Ragona: Say, so are you ready to join Atlas? Right.
[00:18:37] James Marland: nope. In fact, I think I liked how you do it. It's like you make, you made me
[00:18:42] James Marland: respond. You were like, Hey, this is what I got. Does this sound good to you? Send me an email that says I'm all in. You know, you made me make the decision,
[00:18:51] James Marland: not, you know, sign up now with this pressure, pressure
[00:18:55] James Marland: thing.
[00:18:56] James Marland: It
[00:18:56] Joey Ragona: Yeah. And I don't know, did you, um, refresh my memory? Did you get the, the, I guess the sales offer? And then did you
[00:19:06] Joey Ragona: buy on that sales
[00:19:07] James Marland: no, it took me a
[00:19:08] James Marland: year. I went to your, I went to
[00:19:11] James Marland: your
[00:19:11] James Marland: webinar twice
[00:19:13] James Marland: because
[00:19:14] Joey Ragona: there you go.
[00:19:14] Joey Ragona: Right.
[00:19:16] James Marland: I,
[00:19:16] Joey Ragona: So, okay. So the reason I'm asking you this,
[00:19:18] Joey Ragona: so for everybody listening, did you
[00:19:20] Joey Ragona: get any pressure emails or whatever from the first time you got that
[00:19:25] Joey Ragona: sales
[00:19:25] Joey Ragona: offer?
[00:19:26] James Marland: So I probably got emails, but I don't remember pressure.
[00:19:29] James Marland: Like, I
[00:19:30] James Marland: I
[00:19:30] Joey Ragona: Like, are you going to buy? Are you going to buy?
[00:19:32] James Marland: I got like, Hey, I have this webinar coming up or I have this person, this, you know, you, uh, joined my Facebook group to ask your questions, uh, that, that type of like value and support. And every once in a while, like once a quarter, I think it was like, Hey, I'm starting another group up.
[00:19:52] James Marland: This is the date. This is, you know, Send me an email if you want more information. Like you weren't, you weren't pressuring me to sell. It was more of a, do you want, do you think I can help you? Well, this is how you take the next step. And it was like this, um, you talk about it in the course, the chain of beliefs.
[00:20:11] James Marland: Like I had to believe all in the beginning, like, oh, I can, I have. Something to do, but I'm stuck at some point, and the last chain of belief was Joey can help me. I need to email Joey and you just kind of you were there until I made. That leap that I need. I needed help. You know, one of my beliefs I had to get over was that you need help.
[00:20:40] James Marland: Like, you can't do it all alone. And then the other one is like, okay, I have a problem. Where can I find solutions? Joey knows what he's talking about. He he aligns with my my values. My, my vision of how I believe I want to run my business because I've gone to his webinar twice and I understood what he was offering.
[00:21:06] James Marland: And then, uh, the, the people like I'd gone to other webinars about like deadlines and like building anticipation and all that type of stuff. made sense, but it also didn't quite align with my, my values. Like I don't, how can a helper, you know, I want to help people. Pressure people to buy things now.
[00:21:31] James Marland: Does that sound helpful? It just didn't, it didn't jive, but what you were saying
[00:21:36] James Marland: did. And
[00:21:37] James Marland: so it led me to that belief.
[00:21:41] James Marland: I think I need help. Joey can help me. I'm going to see what he has,
[00:21:45] James Marland: you
[00:21:45] James Marland: know, and I'll.
[00:21:46] James Marland: And that's when I bought.
[00:21:49] Joey Ragona: thank you for. Yeah. Tell me that story
[00:21:52] Joey Ragona: because it's important for people to hear that. And you are totally aligned with me or I'm aligned with you. Hopefully I think that you're aligned with me. So you are a dream client for me. And it was easy. Like for me, if somebody said, well, how did you. Make a sale to James.
[00:22:07] Joey Ragona: And I'm like, it was a cinch. Like I didn't do, I didn't do anything like I just, one day he sent me an email and said, I'm thinking about joining Atlas. Uh, can you tell me something else? I think that's how our exchange really went. It was first like a year before it was like going through the regular thing and you didn't buy, and then a year after it was in the email or something.
[00:22:26] Joey Ragona: And I said, okay, here's a couple of more answers or whatever we did. And if I look at that little. Moment in time, it was like, well, this dude just bought in a day. It was simple. He sent me an email and sent them back some questions or what he got on a call or whatever it was, and he bought, and that's what a lot of people look at.
[00:22:43] Joey Ragona: They look at, well, I'll help you do this kind of sale. And that's not the case. Like you're our journey together was almost a year and a half, if not more of, of bonding and trust and all these other things. And you sold yourself, right? Would you
[00:22:56] Joey Ragona: agree with that?
[00:22:57] James Marland: Yeah. You, you didn't have to twist my arm. I, I, I, yeah, I sold myself, I guess. Like I believed that I, first I experienced what you had. I had, I, you did help me in some of my problems and I just wanted more, you know, I
[00:23:15] James Marland: wanted, I wanted more help and more support. And this was the way to get on that
[00:23:19] James Marland: bus.
[00:23:20] Joey Ragona: Yeah. and then you're checking it out. You're like, who's this guy for
[00:23:23] Joey Ragona: real? Is he staying?
[00:23:25] Joey Ragona: On track is, is, is his message, you know, the same all the way through. And I think that's an important thing that, you know, we can talk about as well, because if, um, if I'm changing up my message or I'm different, you know, behind the scenes or on a YouTube or in a webinar, like you're seeing patterns of disguise, not the same as I saw more, like it would, it would freak you out.
[00:23:45] Joey Ragona: I think it would freak you out. You're like, I'm not sure about this dude, but when you show up and this is really important, this is part of, you know, this, this is part of our superpower matrix. This is one of the hardest things I think for, for people to, to, to actualize is because it's being yourself and not being afraid of being judged.
[00:24:03] Joey Ragona: And because that's how you get best friends, right? You just like, this is who I am, take it or leave it. And this is, you're going to see me at my best and see me at my worst. And can, can you handle that and everything in between? And so. If you do that, then everybody around you is either repelled by you or they're attracted to you.
[00:24:21] Joey Ragona: And you're not doing, you're not being a jerk about anything for the people who don't want to work with you or don't like you or whatever. They're just not gonna work with you. And so I think that's so important because so many people are trying things and they're changing up their message or they're changing the way that they do things and consistency is so important. That's why it's, I talk about the same dang thing like every day, nothing ever changes. So there's always this consistency. And I think that builds a lot of bond and trust, but as you know, it's, it's not easy because you don't get a lot of traction. You don't get like people holding up their hand and sending you money every single day. And you don't know if it's working. And that's a tough, tough road.
[00:25:08] James Marland: Yes. I think we, we started, we didn't record this part,
[00:25:12] James Marland: but we started talking about. What you call the 4 percent multipliers because somebody somebody made a post and it's like, I feel like I'm doing all this stuff and I'm nobody's responding. And I'm like, I'm right there with you. You know, I make podcasts.
[00:25:25] James Marland: I do blogs. I send out social media. know, I tried. I try to be helpful, but. Is anybody listening, but I know well, there's 1 thing. 1 thing that keeps me going is like, I enjoy helping. Like, I enjoy adding value to people. I enjoy going into Facebook groups and making podcasts that are from lessons that I've learned to help people without any.
[00:25:52] James Marland: Expectation, I guess that they're going to be like, Oh, James, that was a great answer. Do you have something to sell to me? Like, it's not it's not what I'm going for. Uh, I do have this belief because I've seen it. I've seen it work in other people where they're consistent. Just like you showed up week after week, day after day, quarter after quarter saying, Hey, I'm here.
[00:26:15] James Marland: If you need help this, let me help you with this other problem. But it's You want more, this is how I can help you with more. And eventually my, I was ready, you know, um, and I do believe that that, well, that's not the. The quickest way, I guess, to make a sale. I think it's probably the most authentic way to get your
[00:26:37] James Marland: dream clients to make a sale.
[00:26:39] James Marland: Would you agree or do you have a different
[00:26:41] James Marland: take
[00:26:42] James Marland: on that?
[00:26:43] Joey Ragona: I totally agree with you. And I
[00:26:45] Joey Ragona: think that what we'll do is expand on it to help your listeners understand. the, the, the speed of it because speed is a huge factor. It's a detriment, I think. Is that the right word? Anyway, it is now. Uh, so you're right that it's a slower process. However, this consistency in doing it every day is the most important piece of it. And. What happens is when you bring people into your world, we call it curating the tribe, right? You bring people into your world, whatever that is, your Facebook group, your email list on that, and you're consistently helping. Let me back up for a second. Cause I want to, I don't want to forget this piece because you said something very important that you enjoy helping people.
[00:27:29] Joey Ragona: You enjoy doing all of those things. And that relates back to the dream client DNA. Like, you know, the people that you want to help, or not only that, maybe you don't know who that is exactly right now, but you do know what you enjoy. You do know what you want to step into and just could talk about 24 seven. Like that is a big, big thing because. If you start out with, what do I want to sell? What's, what's the trend today? What's the thing you're going to get messed up because it's like, well, this is, I'm not seeing any traction here. Uh, let me switch to this thing over here. Right. And that's what happens to 80, 80,
[00:28:04] Joey Ragona: 90
[00:28:05] James Marland: the consistency.
[00:28:06] Joey Ragona: people. Yeah. Or, and because they get either
[00:28:10] Joey Ragona: the
[00:28:10] Joey Ragona: consistency and the, because they get bored and because they have expectations. Right. This is not happening fast enough for me. I don't want to keep talking about this as if this is not working, dude, I see this. Every day, every day, even from high level people. I see, I see this.
[00:28:23] Joey Ragona: I'm like, why are you changing? Like just here, like, and I give them the three pillars, as you know, like curate the tribe, you know,
[00:28:31] Joey Ragona: um,
[00:28:32] James Marland: Serf don't sell.
[00:28:34] Joey Ragona: yeah, serve,
[00:28:34] Joey Ragona: serve, not sell, and then, um, respect their
[00:28:37] Joey Ragona: timeline. And I'm like that
[00:28:38] Joey Ragona: respect their timeline is the piece that you're missing, right? Like you're, you're serving, you're, you're talking to these other people, but you're not respecting it.
[00:28:45] Joey Ragona: And they're like, oh yeah, I totally get it. And it brings them, hopefully grounds them back because that's a hard piece of it. So I don't know where that was going with my ADD just kicked in. I don't know where I was going with this, but that, at least I got the most important piece out,
[00:28:58] Joey Ragona: which was
[00:28:59] James Marland: I say, I say that at least once every time I
[00:29:02] James Marland: do a podcast, I don't know where I
[00:29:03] James Marland: was going, but here let's,
[00:29:06] Joey Ragona: right. Right. That's who we are. You know, if we're, if we're, fake about it and we're like, Oh, geez, you gotta, you gotta edit that out.
[00:29:12] Joey Ragona: Like, no man,
[00:29:13] Joey Ragona: this is who we are.
[00:29:14] Joey Ragona: Right.
[00:29:15] James Marland: So we've been, wow, this has been awesome. We've been recording about 20 minutes. Did we talk about, there was, um, the dream business and the dream client DNA. Do you want to
[00:29:27] James Marland: do, uh, with the, you know, the few minutes we have left, do you want to get into
[00:29:31] James Marland: that?
[00:29:33] Joey Ragona: Yeah. Yeah. for sure. Uh, which one do you
[00:29:35] Joey Ragona: want
[00:29:35] Joey Ragona: to hit? That the dream business is more of a, it's more of a checklist. We can, you know,
[00:29:40] James Marland: Well,
[00:29:41] Joey Ragona: it's
[00:29:42] James Marland: I just want to, I know we've been recording 30 minutes
[00:29:44] James Marland: that I didn't, I
[00:29:45] James Marland: didn't want
[00:29:45] James Marland: to, um, go too long
[00:29:47] James Marland: for you. I
[00:29:48] James Marland: don't
[00:29:49] Joey Ragona: yeah, sure.
[00:29:51] Joey Ragona: I'm here as long as you need me. Just cut me
[00:29:52] James Marland: Oh, man, I'll cancel my dinner plans then because
[00:29:58] James Marland: because
[00:29:58] James Marland: once you get on a
[00:29:59] James Marland: roll, you are, uh, you're tough to
[00:30:01] James Marland: shut down.
[00:30:03] Joey Ragona: I know, dude. I know you got to just say that's enough, dude.
[00:30:06] Joey Ragona: I gotta go.
[00:30:08] James Marland: All right, uh, so we were so we had just started talking about doing what
[00:30:12] James Marland: you love
[00:30:13] James Marland: every day and some of the.
[00:30:17] Joey Ragona: 4 percent
[00:30:18] James Marland: 4 percent multiplier, um,
[00:30:22] Joey Ragona: So let me, let me just
[00:30:23] Joey Ragona: finish off a thought there for the 4 percent
[00:30:25] Joey Ragona: multiplier.
[00:30:25] Joey Ragona: And that is because you're doing what you love and you're, and every single day, that's when the 4 percent multiplier comes in because you're doing almost the same thing every day.
[00:30:35] Joey Ragona: And it's not like you're doing a whole bunch of stuff. It's like, I'm in my case, I'm helping in groups or I go into my group or whatever, those little things. And maybe a, a podcast every single week or something like that, or a live stream. And I just enjoy. I just enjoy it. So there's no expectations. And I'm glad that you said the same thing, that you're not expecting it, that you're, you're out there knowing and have faith that it's going to work. And where I was going with this is that it's, it's like this flywheel. Um, and I forget who it is. It was, uh,
[00:31:08] Joey Ragona: made to stick, uh,
[00:31:09] James Marland: great. It's the book on my
[00:31:11] James Marland: bookshelf right There
[00:31:14] Joey Ragona: There it is. So, you
[00:31:14] Joey Ragona: know,
[00:31:16] Joey Ragona: Jim
[00:31:16] Joey Ragona: Collins, that, that was it. Uh, so, you
[00:31:19] Joey Ragona: know, this, you, you know, the concept, right? So, you know, that that flywheel is you started this flywheel and yes, there's, it's a slow one, you're not seeing any results, but let's pretend for a second that we're gathering these people into a circle, into a, a group or a Facebook group or something, and you've done it for three months and nobody's bought anything.
[00:31:36] Joey Ragona: You're like, is this really working? Um, but those are the people who are now in your ecosystem who are, who are What you did, you're, you're kind of watching, you're asking questions or you're just like staying back and then the next three months comes into play and you're still doing the exact same thing again and you might put an offer out or something.
[00:31:52] Joey Ragona: And then one of the previous people, and I'm not saying this is how it all works, but just as an example, one of the, one or two of the previous people of the first three months says, Hey, I'd love to know about that. Are they buy? And so you're constantly, if you're, if, again, if you're staying true to what you're doing and you're constantly doing these small little things of curating the tribe and that tribe is growing, that flywheel is getting easier and easier to push. Right. You're not resetting it, but that's the whole point is because people don't see results in three, six months, they throw away the flywheel and then they go and try and push another one and start all over
[00:32:25] Joey Ragona: again.
[00:32:25] James Marland: Well, the first time you're on a bicycle, that first
[00:32:28] James Marland: pedal is really hard because you're, you're going from a stop.
[00:32:33] James Marland: And then the next pedal is a little easier, but it's still probably hard. When does it become easy? You don't really, it's, you don't know, it's not the first pedal.
[00:32:44] James Marland: It might
[00:32:45] James Marland: be the 10th pedal, but it could be the 30th pedal.
[00:32:47] James Marland: You're not really sure when it becomes this, this machine that, that now all you have to do
[00:32:55] James Marland: is just rest, you know, the momentum carries it.
[00:32:58] James Marland: Uh, and I,
[00:32:59] Joey Ragona: Exactly.
[00:33:00] James Marland: the, the consistency and the message and the branding, I don't know if we haven't mentioned branding, but like your message, That you're saying and what you're doing over and over again.
[00:33:10] James Marland: When does it become effective? It's, it's not the first
[00:33:13] James Marland: pedal, but it's before the hundredth pedal. Where is that?
[00:33:19] Joey Ragona: You don't, You
[00:33:19] James Marland: just gotta, you just gotta keep being consistent.
[00:33:23] Joey Ragona: Yeah. And we give up way too soon. And so, um, I'm glad that, you know, you're on board with the whole flywheel thing, and I'm pretty sure you've mentioned that before to your audience. And so if you understand that concept, that's where I live. And it's, and it's not easy every day.
[00:33:39] Joey Ragona: It's not like I, you know, I'd, I'd be lying to say that. Yeah. Even though I have a really good week, my dream week, my ultimate week, there's weeks when I'm like, I'm still questioning, dang, like, is this going to work? Like what's going to, what's going to happen? So it's not like once you, once you get sales or once you hit 100, 000 or something, you're like, this is amazing. No. Anybody tells you that is lying or they're trying to sell you something. It's always, it's always a challenge. It's always hard, but it gets easier when you have processes in place. And, and especially I'm going to keep going back to this, especially you're you're doing what you love, the thing that you love and are really great at, and you're speaking to people, whether you like it's the engagement is there or not to people that you want to work with, that is the catalyst.
[00:34:28] James Marland: yeah, you're describing elements of the
[00:34:31] James Marland: dream business there. You're doing what you love with
[00:34:34] James Marland: people you
[00:34:34] James Marland: love.
[00:34:35] Joey Ragona: That's right. That's right.
[00:34:38] James Marland: Um, before we end, what is the, uh, Dream Client DNA
[00:34:43] James Marland: and do you have a query? Do you have a, uh, a webinar coming up on
[00:34:47] James Marland: that?
[00:34:48] Joey Ragona: Uh, we can actually, yeah, I
[00:34:50] Joey Ragona: don't have it scheduled, but I can do one especially for you for your tribe. If you want to send it out to them and invite them, uh, I'd love to do something for your tribe to, uh, to do that. But the Dreamclient DNA is a, it's a simple concept. But it's a little tricky because our brain gets in the way.
[00:35:07] Joey Ragona: And let me explain this to you that it's basically describing your perfect person that you want to work with, who would be that perfect person. It's beyond the, the avatar because the avatar is based on demographics. It's based on some psychographics, but. This is, this is again, goes deeper is who is that best friend that you want to design, uh, who actually pays you?
[00:35:30] Joey Ragona: Like, that's really what it is. So it's this, it's basically a T chart. Here's the good things and the characteristics and values and all that stuff. And here's the stuff I just don't want to deal with. If somebody has like a lot of these things, that's a, that's a red flag for me. And so it's this comparison chart that nobody else sees, except you, that You start to write down what triggers you and what drains your batteries and what charges you what what is somebody that if you met this person and they had 90 percent of this or 95 percent of this, this would be a dream come true. That's what we're looking for. Who's that dream come true person? 100%.
[00:36:06] James Marland: I, I've described it in a way, like, you might not know everything, but when you meet a person, you can almost tell they're a Dream Client just the way you resonate with them. Like you, You have this connection. You can't maybe articulate how you have this connection, but what they're saying and what you're saying align with your vision and values.
[00:36:31] James Marland: And they don't say the things that turn you off. For example, uh, uh, I don't, I get turned off by people who say I can, you know, sell this. Do you want to know how I make 100, 000 with a 499 product that I've never made? Like. That is not that that, like, angers me, you know,
[00:36:53] James Marland: because you are just you're selling and manipulating not serving,
[00:36:57] James Marland: um,
[00:36:57] Joey Ragona: hmm.
[00:36:58] James Marland: people who, um, just expect expect things to happen without trying and, like, failing a little bit that those are also people that I don't think quite get the, the, the, the, the,
[00:37:15] James Marland: um, The time it takes the, you know, allow people to be in a journey type of thing.
[00:37:22] James Marland: Um, but people who want to help other people, people who are on a mission, as I said, in the beginning, people who have the goal bigger than themselves, you know, they want to create life change. Those are the people that I resonate with and that they can't help talk about. They can't help sharing about what's important to them if you just ask them a little bit.
[00:37:45] James Marland: Um, I've talked to some people recently about creating courses for trauma, people who have gone through trauma and how to help them in different situations and circumstances. That resonates with me because I, I working in the mental health field for like 18 years. I saw a lot of crap, you know, saw a lot of people who just suffered and didn't, um, they were suffering and they suffered alone.
[00:38:12] James Marland: And I'm just like, oh, that is that is horrible. How can we help them so I get to help people launch those types of courses or other things like that. So they just as they talk about what they want to do, it resonates with me and they, they would
[00:38:27] James Marland: be dream, dream,
[00:38:28] James Marland: clients for me because they're doing something bigger than themselves.
[00:38:32] Joey Ragona: Yeah. And like, those are all
[00:38:34] Joey Ragona: hugely
[00:38:35] Joey Ragona: important things And sometimes, at least in my experience from clients, some, sometimes it's hard, like for me and you, it sounds that you're the same as me when it comes to reading people or feeling that energy. It's pretty easy for me because I'm very in tune with my body and I can feel the energy back and forth and do I resonate and all that sometimes. Some people have trouble with that, and that's okay. And that's where the Dream Client DNA will also help you, because then it's more of, and I think it'll still help us, like people like us, that where we, we can still feel energy from people, but also at the same time, it's, it's about understanding, ask yourself this question, and this is for everybody, is do I have to change who I am speaking to this person? And if you do, if that's probably not a Dream Client, and what I'm saying is that you don't. necessarily have to have a person totally agree with you. It's not that there's a lot of people who disagree with me. I shouldn't say disagree, but we challenge each other. in Atlas, right? There's still, and it's, but it's a love thing.
[00:39:43] Joey Ragona: It's like, okay, cool. You're, you're, and if it doesn't get resolved on either, it's like, that's cool. That's what you're thinking. It's not this hatred, like, no way I'm out. You're wrong. I'm right. Nothing like that because that's how friends are, right? Your best friends is not completely 100%. That would be a really boring relationship. Um, cause you're not learning. You're not growing, but most importantly so that's how I would help somebody who doesn't have that. way of like reading somebody or feeling it is like, am I filtering myself out here? Like, how am I afraid to say this or that kind of stuff to me? That's, that's, that's a, that's a pain. Cause that's the way I used to be like, okay, what's the right thing to say to this person that they're objecting to this? So how can I, what's the right line over here to say, to get them to, to believe me, to understand my thinking, dude, that's, that's, that's, that's Draining for me,
[00:40:40] Joey Ragona: like, I just,
[00:40:41] James Marland: do I break them down so that they
[00:40:43] James Marland: would buy
[00:40:44] James Marland: this thing?
[00:40:45] Joey Ragona: oh my gosh, I would rather have somebody not understand or challenge me, but in a way that they're
[00:40:51] Joey Ragona: open to at least having a discussion about it. And then I'm like, here's what I'm talking about. Here's what I mean. And if they still don't believe it or want to believe it or whatever, I'm like, that's okay. That's totally cool. Can I give you one short example of this? And this, I think is a really important. Um, because I do a lot of, this is not for you thing.
[00:41:13] Joey Ragona: And it's not the whole, you know, marketing thing where you're trying to take something away. And the more you take it away, people want it. That's not what I'm talking about. But I was recently on a call with somebody who wanted to buy Atlas and I had three conversations with this person. And they, and again, I'm not, this is not a bad person.
[00:41:31] Joey Ragona: They're not judging them or anything, but they just weren't right for it for one reason, one reason only. They agreed with everything. Right. Right. everything about, you know, curating the tribe and all that stuff, but they kept on bringing up one word. I'll let you guess. Do you know what the word
[00:41:45] Joey Ragona: is?
[00:41:45] James Marland: Now? Immediately?
[00:41:48] Joey Ragona: yeah, it was, it was, speed.
[00:41:49] Joey Ragona: It was that it was immediate,
[00:41:50] Joey Ragona: right? It was speed. I knew you'd get it.
[00:41:53] Joey Ragona: And I'm like,
[00:41:54] Joey Ragona: and it just, every time they said it, I'm like, I don't know. You kind of get it. But that speed really scares me because this is not what this is about. Like it's, it's kind of contradicting what I'm saying here, building the tribe, serving, not selling and respecting the timeline that kind of wipes it all out.
[00:42:14] Joey Ragona: Like, would you
[00:42:14] Joey Ragona: agree?
[00:42:15] James Marland: Well, you, you, asked us to be more human and have
[00:42:19] James Marland: conversations rather than automate everything and send out mass emails and stuff. And how can you, how can you automate a relationship? You know, how do you make it the fastest with the least amount of friction that that wasn't what you were teaching us?
[00:42:34] James Marland: I'm sure there's other people that would teach something shows people how to speed You know the fewest contacts you can really have
[00:42:43] James Marland: with somebody to make a big sale, you know But that's not at that's not Atlas
[00:42:48] Joey Ragona: Yeah. And, and it was more of like, what's
[00:42:50] Joey Ragona: the process
[00:42:51] Joey Ragona: going to look like? Are you going to bring somebody onto a call and you're going to try to convert them? Like that mentality is still there. And I did my best to share my thought process with that. And again, there, there are people who do, who get that to work and all that, like, and, and I go, that's just not me.
[00:43:10] Joey Ragona: And if that's what you expect out of this, then you're going to be disappointed at the end of 12 weeks or whatever, and that's not going to be good. So I think that everybody needs the real, I'm telling you the story is because it's not, again, that person is a, is a really, really cool person, but just not right for Atlas at this point. And it was my job to know that going in to save us both time. And at the end of it, the third email or whatever I got was like, you know what? You're absolutely right. I think I'm going to do this thing other way first, like basically funnels and all the other things and see how that works. So I even challenged that.
[00:43:48] Joey Ragona: I said, what is going to happen if. You get to the end of 12 weeks with me and nothing happens. What are you going to do? And they said, well, I'll, I'll start running ads and doing funnels. And I said, well, you see what I mean? You're still in this, in this frame and I go, there's nothing wrong, but it's going to contradict everything.
[00:44:04] Joey Ragona: You're going to do your, you're kind of looking for a magic bullet for 12 weeks. And if it doesn't work, then you're going to go back to the thing you're thinking about right now. So I said, go do the thing you're thinking about right now. And if it works, fantastic. I wish you all the best. And hopefully you don't need me at all.
[00:44:22] Joey Ragona: Right?
[00:44:22] James Marland: just thinking about my experience and I think the program is magic. Like I've gone through it twice now. Like, I'm still like learning and unpacking things and, um, applying things and being consistent. Like I'm still in the process, but that was one of the things that like you, you put your money where your mouth is.
[00:44:46] James Marland: Hey, if you didn't get it. Come back again. Let's work. Let's keep working on it. Cause I am your, I am your fan. You know, Joey is your fan and your supporter. I'm going to help you get the results. Some people, you know, some outliers might do it in one session. Some might do it in two you even offered it to me a third time.
[00:45:06] James Marland: Like, you're like, Hey, do you want to come back again? Like, well, let me, it's, it's like, uh, let me finish the checklist, you know, and get through it. And then maybe, maybe in a, in another year, I'll come back and see, you know, if I hadn't made you, uh, you have a guarantee, like you're going to make your money back or you're going to get your value out of this.
[00:45:28] James Marland: I've already got my value. Cause I know my, my, uh,
[00:45:33] James Marland: like I have a better foundation for what I'm doing. You know, the, the foundation is secure and it aligns with my, my, values. And I know this is the way, like, I don't want to create a business where I am chasing the next big thing. I want to create a business where I'm chasing people who like authentic James Marland, who can get, I can help them get to their next destination, uh, where
[00:46:00] James Marland: they're going to find somebody else who probably can help them get to their, you know, keep growing, but I can help people get to their first.
[00:46:07] James Marland: Or second destination with what I know, and I don't have to worry about the other destinations. I just know I can get people
[00:46:15] James Marland: to
[00:46:16] James Marland: a dream. 1 of their dreams.
[00:46:19] Joey Ragona: Exactly. And, you know,
[00:46:22] Joey Ragona: to your point there, uh, you know, your journey, I'm just gonna put words in your mouth, just correct me where, where I'm wrong here, but you know, your journey is, that's why the first curation of it was important to get you in. And I believe that you were the person who is like, okay, I know whatever's going to go on in his mind for the first six weeks or so is going to be like, whatever, is this going to really work?
[00:46:45] Joey Ragona: Whatever it is. But it was, you know, between the six and eight, it was like a breakthrough. or something that was like, wait a minute, this, this really could work for me, even though it wasn't working yet and bringing money in. And so that spoke to, at least for me, your character, which was, wait, I, I'm, I didn't make any money here. Uh, but I'm going to continue going with this. I see the difference now and I want to continue. And you came to the second one and now you're like, you said, well, I'm still not, you know, on the top end of them and all this stuff, but I'm still willing to work on this and I'm going to take a break a little bit, but here's what I'm seeing from this and again, correct me if I'm wrong, but now you're at the point of like, you can pinpoint the areas of where you
[00:47:26] Joey Ragona: actually need help. Like, is it the DNA or is it the 4 percent multiplier? Now it's like very much
[00:47:32] Joey Ragona: more precise. It's not about, I don't understand what the whole concept of heart heart center marketing is. What's the concept of dream? Like you kind of get it and you're like, this is the piece I'm struggling with. Am I right?
[00:47:43] James Marland: Yes. If I could pinpoint the thing that I need. That I that I that I wish I had, like.
[00:47:51] James Marland: Uh, solved right now, uh, is the, the chain of beliefs where, like, where did they start? I think I was starting when I, when I was doing the chain of beliefs, I was like, all therapists need to have an online course, which is like a mass market appeal, sub marks, sub mass market, whatever.
[00:48:11] James Marland: But it was like all these therapists, they're so brilliant. They need to have a course that was too broad of a net. You know, I actually need to focus some of my energies on I am a therapist and I believe I have something to share and I can do it online or some, some sort of like foundational belief and my chain that I'm still working on because that's 1 of the things
[00:48:34] James Marland: that it's hard to do it fast, but, and it's hard.
[00:48:39] James Marland: It's hard to do it without conversations to 1 of the big things that you impress, like, listen, do conversations, talk to people, figure out what they need anyways. So just like. With my chain of beliefs, when I bought from you, I like way down the line, I was like, I have a problem. I can get help for this problem.
[00:48:59] James Marland: That was probably the next belief who can help me. Oh, Joey, he's in my world. He's been helping me. I can get help with my problem. I should buy from Joey. I got to work on that sort of chain of beliefs, not in a manipulating way, but sort of like knowing, you know, I got to, where do I, where do I start interacting with people?
[00:49:21] James Marland: It's where they're, they've recognized they have a problem and they start looking for their solution. I don't have to create the problem for them. Like, Oh, you're a therapist. You need an online course. That's just. That's that's way too. I don't know. That's just way too much. Uh, too, too far
[00:49:41] James Marland: away
[00:49:41] James Marland: removed
[00:49:42] James Marland: from my where I can get
[00:49:44] James Marland: success
[00:49:46] Joey Ragona: Yeah. And, and I know you're, I know you're, you don't
[00:49:48] Joey Ragona: want to go on forever here, but I want to just tap into this and you can just
[00:49:51] Joey Ragona: cut out whatever you don't want
[00:49:52] James Marland: might be a two parter man. This might be a two
[00:49:54] James Marland: parter
[00:49:55] James Marland: or
[00:49:56] Joey Ragona: Uh, but. You know, dude, like to your, to your point there, your, your dream client may not be about the course yet. It might be about something different.
[00:50:04] Joey Ragona: So your, your, your therapist person sits beside you in the bar and they say, uh, I just wish there was a way that I could have more of my time back. You know, something like that. And. But I, but I don't want to stop helping people. I just wish there was a way to help more people and just have more of my time back to spend with my family.
[00:50:21] Joey Ragona: Like, let's just pretend it's that. And that's a completely different thing than a person who already knows they want to have a course. Now that could be the same because they could say, I I'm trying to get this course out because I want my time back and be with my family and help more people, but I'm just struggling with that.
[00:50:41] Joey Ragona: Like that could be in wrapped in that person. And you're like, Oh, cause now they've already hit all the things for you.
[00:50:47] Joey Ragona: And then it's like, well, what's happening. And then they could go into the next belief or
[00:50:52] Joey Ragona: the next struggle or
[00:50:54] Joey Ragona: whatever that might look like. It might be, well, I've spent five years of my life and a hundred thousand dollars in courses and nothing's worked so far.
[00:51:01] Joey Ragona: Right. Which is kind of where my people are too. It's like, that's why I go into the dream client is different than an ideal client avatar. And then I go into my unfunnel stuff. You don't need funnels and all these things. And, and it resonates with people. Like, I can't tell you James, how many times. Now more more than ever because unfunnel that my message is becoming stronger and stronger that people are using the word aligned a lot with me. This doesn't align with me like the what I'm being taught like cold DMing people and 50 people a day and all these that doesn't align with me. And the funnel thing is really frustrating me. So, so it's aligning with the right people and repelling the other ones.
[00:51:43] James Marland: yes,
[00:51:43] Joey Ragona: And that's an easy conversation because they don't have to sell anybody.
[00:51:47] Joey Ragona: They're like, what does
[00:51:48] Joey Ragona: unfollow mean?
[00:51:49] James Marland: yeah, they're either going to be attracted or repelled from that. Just that very word. Oh, well, I, I know funnels is the way to do things. I, I'm not going to go there. Well, that's a repellent. That's that's not your dream, your dream client. And I going back to the, the police. I hear, you know, just like, um, they want to help people, but they're running out of
[00:52:13] James Marland: time. You know, that that 1 to 1 modality,
[00:52:18] James Marland: uh, and.
[00:52:19] Joey Ragona: So that's a huge
[00:52:19] Joey Ragona: one.
[00:52:20] James Marland: Yeah, and and. also burnout, like burnout and emotional burnout. When I worked, I did intakes and assessments at a mental
[00:52:29] James Marland: hospital. When I came home and my wife wanted to talk to me, I was fried.
[00:52:34] James Marland: Like,
[00:52:35] James Marland: I was mentally, emotionally fried. I was there. You know, I wasn't working 80 hours a week, but I was just like, I've heard problems all day long.
[00:52:44] James Marland: I didn't have the emotional resonance there to respond. And so there's lots, there's, there's during COVID and during the last, you know, three or four years where people experienced some serious emotional, you know, the world was topsy turvy. Therapists started burning out, you know, they started not just started, but they were just.
[00:53:08] James Marland: Like I want to help people, but I've invested all this money and time and courses and I know how to help people. I just don't have time, emotional time and energy to go through. How do I keep using my skills? What I've learned to help people without burning out. So I can
[00:53:25] James Marland: be there for my family. Like that's what.
[00:53:28] James Marland: That's what I've been seeing as I talk
[00:53:30] James Marland: to
[00:53:30] James Marland: people.
[00:53:31] Joey Ragona: that's huge, bro. Like I would go back to this recording and
[00:53:35] Joey Ragona: that's where your chain of beliefs is. It's right there. It's, it's that person who sits, who sits beside you and says, I, I want to use the stuff that I already know I've already bought courses. But at the end of the day, when I get home to start building this thing, I'm burnt out and I'm mentally not there.
[00:53:50] Joey Ragona: How am I supposed to do this? And it's a roller coaster. It's a, it's a bad Groundhog Day for me every day. And there's no way of me doing this. So their belief is that there's, I can't do this or whatever it might be, right? I can't do this. Or there's no time to do this and then you're the savior. So you're coming in and saying, no, no, wait, wait a second. Here's how you could do this. That's a huge, that's a huge piece. You don't have to convince anybody that they want to do an online course. And
[00:54:18] James Marland: If
[00:54:19] Joey Ragona: they've got the Oasis, which is, I want more time with my family, but I want us to continue to help more people in the
[00:54:23] Joey Ragona: world and I've, and this is the vehicle, I just don't know how to use this vehicle and everything I've bought up to now sucks and I can't, or I even can't
[00:54:30] Joey Ragona: get to it.
[00:54:31] James Marland: talked to people whose
[00:54:32] James Marland: solution to either running out of money is just to work harder,
[00:54:37] James Marland: you know, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna keep grinding, you know, my, my max is 25. But I need, you
[00:54:44] James Marland: know, I got to pay for some of my college. I'm going to do 30
[00:54:47] James Marland: clients a week
[00:54:48] James Marland: or
[00:54:48] James Marland: something and just
[00:54:49] James Marland: like,
[00:54:49] Joey Ragona: Is that in your
[00:54:49] Joey Ragona: chain?
[00:54:51] James Marland: uh, no, I think I have like three things.
[00:54:56] James Marland: Like, as I said, I got to work on it. I have like the beginning and like the end.
[00:55:01] James Marland: And then I'm still working on the conversations to get that. But,
[00:55:05] James Marland: um,
[00:55:06] Joey Ragona: Well, part of it is that. okay. So that
[00:55:08] Joey Ragona: relates
[00:55:08] James Marland: working harder is not
[00:55:09] James Marland: the
[00:55:09] James Marland: solution.
[00:55:10] James Marland: Like seeing
[00:55:11] Joey Ragona: adding more clients is not the
[00:55:13] Joey Ragona: answer,
[00:55:14] Joey Ragona: right? Like that's the thing. So for me,
[00:55:16] Joey Ragona: remember in my chain, part of it is, uh, they, they, I need a big list. Uh, you know, those, I need, I need like, whatever, I need a big list. They need a whole bunch of social following and all these.
[00:55:27] Joey Ragona: And I say, you don't need that. Like, so I'm, I'm saying that the opposite. And that to me is, is a big part of your chain. And it could just be a small little thing that you say, and they just move right past it. Like you don't. Tell me more. You don't have to explain it. You're just like, here's one of the biggest problems.
[00:55:43] Joey Ragona: You don't need to add more clients to bring your kids to get your kids to college or
[00:55:50] Joey Ragona: whatever. Huge.
[00:55:52] James Marland: Cool.
[00:55:53] James Marland: I will re
[00:55:54] Joey Ragona: you got
[00:55:55] James Marland: this
[00:55:56] Joey Ragona: Yeah, dude. Like
[00:55:56] Joey Ragona: that's what, that's why, you know,
[00:55:58] Joey Ragona: anybody listening to this is, this
[00:55:59] Joey Ragona: is why you have
[00:56:00] Joey Ragona: coaches and everything else, because, and even for me, like I love bouncing ideas off of each other, off of people, because I learn all the time.
[00:56:07] Joey Ragona: Even for myself, I learned.
[00:56:10] Joey Ragona: That's why conversations are so important. Yeah. Not only with, with somebody who's going to help you, but
[00:56:15] Joey Ragona: you, with your, your clients or your potential clients, because you're learning from them. Like, you know, a lot, bro. I don't know if you see that or not, but you spit this off in the last five minutes, you just like, here's who they are. Why? I think it's because you weren't pressured to like, fill out a form. It's like, okay, fill in your chain of duties. But when I'm asking you and you're explaining, you're like, this is who they are, this is what they tell me. Right? But then we put our pen pen to paper like, ah, how do we fill this out?
[00:56:42] James Marland: Yeah, I'm
[00:56:48] James Marland: taking it all in. All right. Taking me a minute to like
[00:56:52] James Marland: decompress from all this, uh, good conversation.
[00:56:56] James Marland: This is probably a,
[00:56:57] Joey Ragona: it.
[00:56:58] James Marland: probably a good point to ask. Like, we'll start wrapping up. Um, I
[00:57:03] James Marland: want people to be able to find you. Do you still do the, uh, Kajabi webinar?
[00:57:09] Joey Ragona: 100%. Uh, so that is every first Friday of the month,
[00:57:15] Joey Ragona: uh, on Kajabi. And are
[00:57:18] Joey Ragona: you, are you going to I'll
[00:57:19] Joey Ragona: give you links
[00:57:20] Joey Ragona: if they
[00:57:20] Joey Ragona: want. Yeah. So they can join that for sure. And then I,
[00:57:24] Joey Ragona: like I said, if, if your listeners want to do a special bonus training or webinar, whatever, we can do that as well to help them with whatever they need.
[00:57:33] Joey Ragona: You and I can arrange that and gift it to your, to your listeners.
[00:57:39] James Marland: All right. Great. Um, I will put something together. I have that, uh, the
[00:57:46] James Marland: sessions program we talked about. It does webinars. Unless you want to do it in
[00:57:50] James Marland: Zoom. But anyways,
[00:57:50] James Marland: I'll
[00:57:51] James Marland: work it out.
[00:57:52] Joey Ragona: Yeah, we'll work it out.
[00:57:53] James Marland: Uh, yeah, sure. That would be awesome. Uh, you will not be disappointed. Uh, you will probably learn something. That, a new way of thinking about your, your business and your market.
[00:58:03] James Marland: Whether you're creating a course or not. You know, this stuff applies to if you're offering a service. You know, how do you craft the service that you love to go into every day and just and do what you do best. Joey can help you with that as well. It doesn't have to be just about courses. I think we, we, we end up believing we have to be all things to all people.
[00:58:31] James Marland: To make a living and you've really taught you, you can be yourself serving people. You love making money, you know, and enjoying what you do. And I think that's just a great message. So, and then, um, do you any, is that, is there anything else you
[00:58:49] James Marland: want to
[00:58:49] James Marland: have? How else can people connect with you?
[00:58:53] James Marland: Just the, uh,
[00:58:54] James Marland: webinar.
[00:58:57] Joey Ragona: they can go to my
[00:58:58] Joey Ragona: website. I'll give you the,
[00:58:59] Joey Ragona: email address that you can link to as well. They can personally email me. Uh, we'll give the Facebook group, which is a great place to, to gather. They can go there. And as you know, I respond to everything. So even if people DM me, I'm still responding to them.
[00:59:14] Joey Ragona: No, you're not going to be sold, right? So they can, I'm always available, uh, you know, within the boundaries. I mean, I'm still living my great life, but I'm available. It's not hard to get ahold of me and
[00:59:26] Joey Ragona: I
[00:59:26] Joey Ragona: always respond.
[00:59:27] James Marland: Yep. And that's, that's part of your dream job, right? Is responding to people who are interested. So if you're interested in anything, we talked about the dream life, the dream business, dream client DNA, and we talked about a lot of things, the chain of beliefs, the 4 percent multipliers, all those stuff.
[00:59:44] James Marland: You're like, hey, I want to know more about that. How could that help me? Email Joey. He is, uh, a great
[00:59:50] James Marland: guy who will, who will help you out. Cause that's, that's who
[00:59:54] James Marland: he is. Uh, all right.
[00:59:57] James Marland: So that is a
[00:59:58] James Marland: wrap. Um, thanks Joey for joining me.
[01:00:01] James Marland: Oh,
[01:00:03] Joey Ragona: I enjoyed it.
[01:00:04] James Marland: this was, this is wonderful. Uh, something I'm going to listen to again and again.
[01:00:08] James Marland: So, uh, this is James with, uh, the scaling therapy practice part of course, creation studio. com. We will see you next time. Thanks for listening to the show. If you enjoyed the show and wanted to hear more, please like, and share with your friends, it really does help us find new listeners and grow the show. I Hope you go check out Joey and his, a webinar on your dream client connection.
[01:00:39] James Marland: And I'll put a link to that in the show notes. It's coming up in a week. I believe after this episode plays and he does it monthly on the Kajabi platform. I'll have a link to Kajabi and all their resources and they truly do. Support their creators with webinars and links and support. And that's one of the reasons, one of the places I have found Joey and why like Kajabi so much.
[01:01:03] James Marland: So I'll put a link to Kajabi down there and they're awesome. Creator platform.
[01:01:09] James Marland: If you have questions about creating courses or online courses, or if you just want to talk to me about anything. Uh, Kajabi or de script the program I used to create this show. Be more than happy to jump on a call with you or do some emails so we can.
[01:01:24] James Marland: so I can help you the most sort of modeling what Joey. Has set up for me.
[01:01:31] James Marland: As we close. I want to remind you that the scaling therapy practice is for information and entertainment purposes only. If you need professional legal services, accounting business services, please seek a professional in those areas. Uh, everybody's, situation's different and you need a, you need somebody who gives advice for your exact situation.
[01:01:57] James Marland: Scaling therapy practice is a proud part of the site craft network.
