Episode 56: Rapid-Fire Strategies with Guest Gordon Brewer Part 2
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[00:00:09] James Marland: hello, and welcome to another exciting episode of the scaling therapy practice podcast. This is the show where we encourage you to take intentional steps towards sustainable growth. And today's episode, we're continuing our interview with Gordon brewer. Uh, he's from the practice of therapy and the psych craft network.
[00:00:28] James Marland: And this is part two of rapid fire strategies for marketing your therapy services. Before I begin the show, I want to invite you to take part in a learning event with me. Uh, connecting with your ideal client is something we all want to do. Whether you're selling therapy, services, therapy, products, marketing, your solo practice, marketing, a group practice. Selling, uh, digital courses you want to connect with your ideal client?
[00:00:57] James Marland: Before we dive into the show. I wanted to share with you a way you can connect with your ideal client. That's easy to do. Doesn't cost you too much money, and it helps you build a relationship with your clients before you even ask for a sale.
[00:01:10] James Marland: I'm talking about that special tool called a lead magnet. Some people call it a gift. Some people call it value, add, but a lead magnet is really just a valuable piece of content that you give away. You give it away to connect with your audience. This, this piece of value, this content. Generally solves one problem for the, uh, the audience, the listener. And it invites them to develop a. A stronger, a deeper relationship with you. Even before you're asking them for money, it's giving them value in demonstrating your worth before they do, um, you know, do a financial transaction with you.
[00:01:55] James Marland: It builds on that know like and trust factor, and it helps the right client find you.
[00:02:00] James Marland: Cause the right client is going to be searching for what you are giving. And this helps you find the client. You can help the most. So these are called lead magnets
[00:02:09] James Marland: josh Brummel the co-founder of therapy flow is going to be presenting a simple and effective strategy to use lead magnets, to generate more clients. It's in the learning event, we're calling seven steps for more clients using lead magnets. The webinars coming up quickly. It's on January 25th, 2:00 PM.
[00:02:29] James Marland: Eastern standard time, 1:00 PM central time. And you can register on the page. Www dot course creation, studio.com. Ford slash seven steps. That's course creation, studio.com forward slash seven steps. There'll be a link in the show notes, a link on the YouTube link on. The blog post. just be links
[00:02:53] James Marland: I'm really excited about what Josh brings to the table. He's very clear with this message. I love. And I've met him in person and I really like what he has to offer. So if you're thinking. Uh, about what, what you can do with lead magnets, come to the, come to the webinar, come to the learning event and we'll help you out there.
[00:03:13] James Marland: Hope you sign up. A little bit more about this episode here. Part two of our rapid fire marketing strategies as we're going to dive into marketing and how it can positively impact your therapy practice. We're going to talk about creating authentic relationships with social media. And. Just being real in all that you do. I'm really excited about having Gordon on the show.
[00:03:38] James Marland: He's got years of experience, years of consulting, years of running his own business and he we're going to glean some wisdom from that. Like, it's just a really great conversation with him. So whether you're just starting out, whether you're solo, Uh, group or something else. Something in between thinking about going forward, this podcast can help you scale with your marketing. With the valid, valuable insights from Gordon. Finally stay through to the end.
[00:04:09] James Marland: I'm going to talk about wrapping up season two, that, uh, we've. This is a, the final episode of season two. Believe it or not. I said that two episodes ago, but then I did a. This episode with Gordon on the rapid fire strategies, just to review. And then we're going to talk at the end. We're going to talk about season three.
[00:04:27] James Marland: What are we going to do in season three? What are the things coming up? How can we scale your. Practice, maybe beyond the chair, you know, maybe freeing up some time or how do you use some of your, your extra time? That's a misnomer. I don't think therapists really have extra time, but how can you prioritize some of your time to build. Uh, to build out something that's going to give you back some of your. Uh, freedom in your life besides being tied to a chair.
[00:04:58] James Marland: So I'm really excited about that and what what's in store for season three. So stay tuned to the end for that. I'm excited about what Gordon brings.
[00:05:06] James Marland: So make sure you try to write down one thing that you're going to learn. You don't want to try everything probably all at once from this episode, but a B become a master of one thing. Get some insights. And we'll see it in the episode.
[00:05:25] James Marland: Wow. Uh, so the power went out for about four hours. And so we are back recording on a different day. So we might look or sound a little bit different, but, uh, welcome back, Gordon. We were talking about social media and just how authentic posts get the views and likes and shares. Um, what, what do you, what's your view or, um, how do you use social media for your marketing?
[00:05:53] Gordon Brewer: Yeah. So one, one of the things, um, I think this kind of ties in with social media. Um, I think people can stress out a lot about social media in terms of, you know, feeling like they've got to be on different, you know, I've gotta be on, you know, Instagram, I've gotta be on . TikTok and I've gotta be on Twitter and all of those, you know, Facebook or whatever.
[00:06:18] Gordon Brewer: But I think the main thing is, is to just stick to one, the one or two, or the ones that you are involved with anyway, the ones that you're using, um, you know, just in your daily life or whatever. If you use social media, just stick to using just a few because I think, uh, kinda like we were talking about with niches.
[00:06:38] Gordon Brewer: Trying to cast a broad net really doesn't get many fish. so, I mean, sure if you are huge, I mean if you are a huge, you know, organization, you know, or whatever, that might be helpful. Um, but the other thing I'd say about social media, and this is what I do, is look at outsourcing. Um, you know, I'm, um, especially if after you get busy
[00:07:05] Gordon Brewer: You finding someone that can manage your social media, I think is, is huge. Um, um, a little, um, disclaimer here. I get so many nice compliments about my social media posts and particularly on Instagram and all that kind of thing. I. Here's the secret. I do none of it. My , my, um, , my virtual assistant, Rachel does all of that for me.
[00:07:34] Gordon Brewer: And she also responds to most of it. And if it's something that I need to respond to, she, um, she just lets me know, okay, you got a message that you need to respond to a DMM or a, you know, that sort of thing. So. Yeah. So I would say that, and like you were saying, James, is just being, being authentic, being genuine, um, because I think one of the problems with social media is it puts a persona out there that a lot of times in reality is not really you.
[00:08:05] Gordon Brewer: And I think what I've learned over the years . Is people are attracted to genuineness and I think they can pick up on that. And if it's not genuine, uh, people can see through it.
[00:08:19] James Marland: Yeah. Great. Um. Uh, I, so some, I like your tip about, uh, you don't have to be everywhere. Just be on the place that you use and be on the place where maybe some your, your preferred people use. So if you're targeting business people, LinkedIn, probably, uh, if you're.
[00:08:39] Gordon Brewer: Mm-Hmm.
[00:08:39] James Marland: Doing tips and help. Uh, Lisa's always big on, um, Pinterest 'cause people are searching for how-tos and tips of Pinterest
[00:08:48] James Marland: or, so you, you just pick one and become the, the best you can at that.
[00:08:53] James Marland: And, you know, if you wanna add later, do it later, but you don't have to do it all at once. Uh, Steve also had a great tip, uh, Steve Besaw, um, he, he said. Buffer, there's this program called Buffer,
[00:09:08] Gordon Brewer: Yes.
[00:09:09] James Marland: can post three for, for the free version, you can post to three social media platforms, uh, with one picture and one text.
[00:09:21] James Marland: So what I do, and I bet I started using it after he said it, and it's much easier than what I was doing.
[00:09:26] Gordon Brewer: Yeah. And that's a, that's a program that I've been using for years
[00:09:30] Gordon Brewer: and, um,
[00:09:31] James Marland: oh, use buffer.
[00:09:32] Gordon Brewer: worth it. Yeah. I started using Buffer probably five years ago or more. Um, yeah. And so, yeah, part of our process is that Rachel, my assistant, she plug, you know, uh, slogs it out and gets it all done, puts it in Buffer, and it, it sets the schedule and it puts 'em out there.
[00:09:54] Gordon Brewer: On a schedule. So I mean, it's a, it's a great time saver and you can do a lot lot more with it. We're, we're using the premium version, so we're, we've got more, more channels there, whatever, um,
[00:10:10] Gordon Brewer: I, I don't even know what it is now for
[00:10:12] Gordon Brewer: the premium
[00:10:13] James Marland: well, I think it's five when I checked. So I still am using the free version. Um, I'm only on three. I'm on Instagram, LinkedIn, and the Facebook. And so if I went to four, it would be, it's five doll. I think it's $5 a channel, so it'd be. 20, 20 bucks,
[00:10:30] Gordon Brewer: Yeah.
[00:10:30] James Marland: month. But dude
[00:10:33] Gordon Brewer: Mm-Hmm.
[00:10:34] James Marland: all those times, it just, it's such a time saver.
[00:10:37] James Marland: And then I know with the premium version, you get analytics, which every, every time, uh, I po I don't get the analytics on the free version. So I'm like. I really wanna know how to improve this. Um, I'm pretty sure the analytics would help. Oh, and the other thing with Buffer, not that this is the Buffer show, but uh, , you can, it has ai, like, like everything nowadays, it has AI in it.
[00:11:00] James Marland: So you can say, Hey, my post is about, I. You know, marketing my online course and it will write out this little thing that it customizes per channel. So you can customize it for Facebook, customize it for Instagram, customize it for LinkedIn for the different audiences, and it's.
[00:11:23] James Marland: It's such a time saver. So, uh, I'm a big fan of Buffer.
[00:11:27] James Marland: The other one that does something like that is Meet Edgar, which allows you to queue things and then save it in your library, and then it will keep reposting the things in your queue without you doing. Uh, it's automatic, mostly automatic. Not everything's a hundred
[00:11:44] Gordon Brewer: right. Yeah. I've, I've heard a lot about, I've never, I've never used Meet Edgar, but I've heard a lot about it.
[00:11:49] James Marland: I've used it a little bit. It's, it's also fairly easy to use though, I think. I think, um, buffer, if I was gonna pay for one, I'd probably pay for buffer. 'cause I'm, I'm a fan of it. Okay, so social media, uh, uh, just a couple left here. We have a couple left. Uh, the next episode, 47 was on marketing your therapist.
[00:12:12] James Marland: I had, uh, a great guest, Allison Pigeon on that episode. Uh, Allison's in the last couple years has grown rapidly from one or two offices to, I don't even know, four or five with 40 plus therapists or something. It really took off for her. So she was talking about, um, marketing your therapists and some of the challenges you have when it's not just you.
[00:12:35] James Marland: You know, you're not just marketing yourself and you have to kind of like . Uh, how do I market other people? The download for that, uh, episode was, uh, just a marketing your therapist workbook. So there was about four topics with three to four questions per topic to help you, uh, identify some values. The main i i items we talked about is how it, it evolves, your marketing strategy evolves, and how start marketing on shared values. Not necessarily about, you know, your specialty, because when you get so big, you're gonna have, even with a group of 10 therapists, you probably have different specialties or you know, different things that you're good at. So how do you market that? So she started talking about marketing for your values and your shared values, which connect with, uh, your audience.
[00:13:30] James Marland: So, Gordon, any wisdom on marketing for, uh. Other people that aren't yourself, like a group, group practice.
[00:13:37] Gordon Brewer: Well, I think, uh, yeah, just to piggyback on that, is really being able to look at the, at the qualities of your, you know, uh. And, and we're talking, I guess in the context of for a group practice, if you've got other therapists where you're maybe trying to fill up their caseloads and that kind of thing, um, I think it's real important to put their personality out in front.
[00:14:04] Gordon Brewer: Um, be interesting to know if that, um, and, and there've been some studies around that, about, about how people choose a therapist and . , the big thing is, is being able, that they feel some sort of personal connection. You know, the, the number one, um, efficacy, um, . Uh, uh, factor, I guess you could say for therapy is the therapist's client relationship.
[00:14:34] Gordon Brewer: And so in your marketing, you want to be able to establish kind of that feel or that sort of thing. And so, you know, it's always a good idea to have videos of your, um, maybe on your website or that sort of thing. I know with Psychology today, the um, . . The, the profiles that do the best are the ones that have videos of this.
[00:14:58] Gordon Brewer: The,
[00:14:58] James Marland: I, I don't use psychology today. Do you have to pay more for that or you just have to do it.
[00:15:03] Gordon Brewer: you just do it. Um, it's, um, it's, well sy Psychology today, I think it's in included in their basic membership, and it's only 30, about 30 bucks a month. And so, um, that's, um, yeah. So . The psychology. Today's always, nearly always a good ROI for people as far as getting on a
[00:15:24] Gordon Brewer: directory.
[00:15:25] James Marland: and just a plug for, um, uh, I belie, oh, I hope I don't make a mistake here, but Laura Long did a how to get your how to, how to do a great Psychology Today profile thing. It's probably on her webpage. Your badass therapy
[00:15:44] Gordon Brewer: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:15:45] James Marland: And, and, uh, she also did a podcast with Whitney on, uh, on that. So I would go, I'll, I'll look it up in the show notes, , and put it in the show notes about that psychology today.
[00:15:56] James Marland: 'cause I, I listened to it and I was like, oh, wow. You know, it's simple, simple things, but it, it se it really makes a big difference like how she laid it out. So, uh, so videos for your, your, um. Your group practice members. Now, you were talking about you wanna promote the other people, and I think I know why, but why?
[00:16:18] James Marland: Why, why did you, it was an offhanded comment, but why would you promote the other people and not just yourself over and over again?
[00:16:25] Gordon Brewer: Well, I, I think everybody has to, um, look at, you know, their situation. I know for me, . , I've scaled back a lot with the number of people that I see as clients. Um, and so, um, if you go to our website, kingsport counseling.com, you'll see I'm at the very bottom of the list,
[00:16:47] Gordon Brewer: because I'm really trying to, I'm really trying to fill up my other therapists, uh, in the practice.
[00:16:54] Gordon Brewer: And so, um, yeah. And so I think, um, you know, . , particularly with a group practice that's, you know, that's the, where your bread and butter is, is, is filling up your, your clinician's caseloads. Um, because if they're not seeing clients, you're not making money. So, I mean, that's, uh, same thing with, you know, a solo practice.
[00:17:17] Gordon Brewer: If you're not seeing clients, you're not, you're not making any money. And so that's an important, important piece of that.
[00:17:25] Gordon Brewer: Um,
[00:17:25] James Marland: When, when you're a group practice owner, you earn money differently. You're not just an individual contributor. You're putting everybody else in their best possible place.
[00:17:34] Gordon Brewer: Right,
[00:17:35] James Marland: Which is, you know, another reason why I don't, I don't think the group practice owners should answer the phone and do screen calls
[00:17:43] Gordon Brewer: Right.
[00:17:44] James Marland: you'll connect with a client and they'll be like, oh, I love you 'cause you're good, you know, you're good at what you do.
[00:17:50] James Marland: And then they'll feel disappointed when they don't schedule you. So,
[00:17:54] Gordon Brewer: right, right. I had . . Yeah. Uh, yesterday, it's funny, I had got a call at somewhere. I can't find out where it is, but somewhere or another, when people go to schedule with me, my, my cell phone number is coming up in some places, and I don't know
[00:18:10] James Marland: Oh no.
[00:18:10] Gordon Brewer: from. But anyway, they, I thought it was, um, I thought it was someone else that was calling and I answered the phone and it was a client, a former client, and so
[00:18:21] Gordon Brewer: I told, you know, I just had to very graciously apologize and just say, look, I'm
[00:18:26] Gordon Brewer: not taking any more clients right now. Um, kind of gave them a little bit about, uh, what I'm, what's going on for me. But, um, anyway, and told 'em, you know, you need to call the office number. And so they seem to understand and I just said, they can get you connected with somebody else in our practice that can
[00:18:45] Gordon Brewer: help you.
[00:18:46] James Marland: Yeah. And uh. Therapists are some of the most kind sensitive people. And so that, that can be really hard to, to do those things. But it's necessary, uh, when you have a group practice, especially, um, 'cause you, you've hired good people, so let them,
[00:19:03] Gordon Brewer: Mm-Hmm.
[00:19:04] James Marland: see their people.
[00:19:05] Gordon Brewer: Right,
[00:19:06] James Marland: right. We could probably talk a whole nother episode on this, uh, Gordon, but, uh, let's move on.
[00:19:12] James Marland: To, oh, our next episode was marketing your mental health services. So not just like service and products and services. So if you have like a course or worksheets or a coaching or consulting for businesses, not necessarily therapy services. So, uh, we did have Laura Long on the episode
[00:19:29] Gordon Brewer: Uh huh.
[00:19:30] James Marland: she was amazing.
[00:19:32] James Marland: Um, and the download for that was the Dream Client cheat sheet. So it. It's uh, the Dream Client cheat sheet helps you identify what your values are and who you're fighting for, and your must haves for your dream clients and your auto exclusions. Like who are you going for? It's more niching. yes.
[00:19:51] Gordon Brewer: Uh huh.
[00:19:51] James Marland: It's more niching, but we talked about finding your authentic passion.
[00:19:56] James Marland: Authentic. Being authentic and making a difference one person at a time. I really like that point, like find one person that you can help. I. Do it. Great. Alright. Then find five people just like that, and then do it, you know, be excellent and then do it great. You're not helping, man. It was just, it was just a great message.
[00:20:17] James Marland: You're not sending your message to the masses. You're actually trying to help that one. You know, that smaller group of people that you can help the best, the fastest, the quickest, the most efficient. And it was just a great discussion on that. Uh, you're shaking your head. What are your thoughts on that, Gordon?
[00:20:35] Gordon Brewer: Yeah. Yeah. So it's, uh, yeah. One of the things, uh, I know this, it's kind of on my agenda for this next year with my own practices, um, is to begin to start offering coaching services. So one, one of the things about, um, about that is that I think there's been a lot of . Of maybe kind of bad press or press or negative impressions that people get about life, quote unquote, I'm using air quotes, life coaching versus therapy, and that, um, a lot of therapists just don't see it as legitimate.
[00:21:11] Gordon Brewer: But one of the ways I think to think about that is, is that usually people are coming to us for help with a specific problem. . And one of the things about, um, the way I distinguish, and I think this is generally understood within, you know, this world, the, the distinction between therapy versus coaching is that therapy you dig into more of the, the deeper background issues that are just kind of overarching with a person's life.
[00:21:46] Gordon Brewer: And that you're working through those and understanding those, whereas coaching is, is is something more specific. Like, I want to be able to communicate with my spouse better, or I want to be able to, um, have better time management, or I want to be able to, um, uh. Handle
[00:22:06] James Marland: Deal with
[00:22:07] Gordon Brewer: anxiety in a different way or conflicts in a different way.
[00:22:10] Gordon Brewer: So, and that's, that's the way I distinguish that. But I think one of the things, um, sorry I got way off on that tangent, but one of the things about having other services and products for your, for your practice is, is that, um, particularly for a solo practitioner especially, but it's also true for group practices.
[00:22:32] Gordon Brewer: You can reach a ceiling of where there's only so many clients you can see in a day. There's only so many hours you can devote to one-on-one kind of interaction. So coming up with ways to go from the one-to-one way of doing business to the one to many. And so that's where coaching can come in, come into play because you can charge much more for coaching.
[00:22:59] Gordon Brewer: And so you, um, . You get more for your time, but also looking at things like courses and groups and um, uh, different offerings, you know, um, can diversify your income quite a bit by doing those things and not having to depend on the, the, like I said, the one-to-one way of making money and going to the one-to-many.
[00:23:27] James Marland: Yeah, and, and, um, I've said since the beginning of this podcast, I really do believe a therapist has at least one course, or one worksheet, or one workbook, or one, you know, one extra Thing inside them. Just they've, you've gone to school for like eight years, or more, and you've, you've met many, many people and you're getting good at your craft.
[00:23:54] James Marland: Like you have a message that somebody needs. Like there you're, it's, it's just the technology. I think it's. Gets in the way of some people, but there are people that can help you with that. Like, that's one of the things I do, I help people create courses and, and Gordon, you, you help people do podcasts
[00:24:12] Gordon Brewer: mm-Hmm?
[00:24:13] James Marland: you know, there's plenty of other people who help with other things.
[00:24:16] James Marland: So, um,
[00:24:18] James Marland: uh, I Go ahead.
[00:24:20] Gordon Brewer: Yeah. Well, I was just gonna say, but yeah, just, just to, to reiterate, reiterate, what you're saying is, is that as therapists, our skills translate in so many different ways, and we have so much, we, we, we've, um, I. There's so many things that we know that we take for granted that other people just in the general public don't necessarily know.
[00:24:44] Gordon Brewer: I mean, it's, uh, we're kind of ingrained with kind of, um, what it takes to be emotionally intelligent, for example, of how to manage our emotions well and how to deal with all the feelings and all of that kind of thing. But not everybody knows that, and I think we take that for granted. So. Being able to share your knowledge about that, being able to share, um, just how people can get better with that.
[00:25:11] Gordon Brewer: Um, the other thing too, I'll say real quickly here, James, is, is that you were talking about a course, um, if you were to think about it as a therapist, when you're sitting with people. I bet you you say pretty much the same things over and over again in the therapy room. Well, that right there is a course or a book or something that is gonna resonate with somebody out there.
[00:25:37] Gordon Brewer: Um, you know, if you , um, you go to the bookstore or, or, or look on Amazon, I mean, nobody goes to a bookstore anymore, but, um, . Um, but if you go to a bookstore and you look at the self-help section, . , all of it is pretty much the same stuff, but it's just, uh, repackaged in a different way and how it's packaged is gonna resonate differently with people in different ways.
[00:26:06] James Marland: Great. So, so that's awesome. So just. If you're thinking about trying to do something, I, I would start going forward. 'cause don't let the perfect be the enemy of your, your progress. Uh, I had to learn that lesson for like 20 years. still, still struggling with that. Um, but yeah. Okay, so that was episode 49.
[00:26:31] James Marland: Episode 50 was episode 50 was, uh, marketing your therapy services with referrals and word of mouth. Uh, we talked about the download was the heart method of responding to customer complaints. It's something I learned while working at a hospital system. It's just here. Empathize, apologize, and thank.
[00:26:53] James Marland: It really deescalates, uh, complaints to where frontline staff can handle like 90% of the complaints just by diffusing the energy of what is going on. By giving people a, a place to respond where they're respected and valued doesn't mean you have to. You know, fold full. I'm putting fold in air quotes and give and give everybody what they want.
[00:27:19] James Marland: Sometimes people just wanna be heard, and if you can get that out there, then. doesn't, there's nothing to fight against . So anyways, uh, that's the heart method and that's a free download. We talked about, um, the importance of building a positive, uh, reputation in your community, and then also, uh, networking, like going, we talked about conferences again, and local events and doing things. Um, doing things like getting, getting people together for things that you need. That they also need and then watch it grow. So, um, that was, uh, that was word of mouth. Um, Gordon, uh, what do you, what is your thoughts on marketing with net? By networking and word of mouth?
[00:28:09] Gordon Brewer: Yeah. Yeah. I think one of the things, um. That I think people end up getting intimidated by as they think, okay, I'm gonna go to this event so I can network, you know, they, and they, and they go, go to an event with, with this agenda in ha in hand and I'm gonna hand out my business cards and, you know, make sure everybody know in the room knows me well.
[00:28:32] Gordon Brewer: That I think that's as intimidating as hell for most people. And um, yeah. And so I think really if you think about . Networking. It is just really simply building relationships, which we do in the therapy room. I mean, it's something that we do just kind of naturally, and I think just being, being involved, um, in your community, in whatever form that takes, you know, whether it's through your church relationships, synagogue relationships, or um, you know,
[00:29:08] Gordon Brewer: It doesn't necessarily have to be religious, but just different community kinda gatherings and stuff. I mean, um, uh, the, the other night I went to hear some live music at a place here in town. Uh, shout out to Model City Tap Room, and I. One of our, one of my favorite local bands, and people are gonna laugh at the name, their name is Donny and the Dry Heaver.
[00:29:32] Gordon Brewer: So, but they are I'm, I'm friends with a lot of the band members. They're, they're quite a bit younger than me, but, um, anyway, I. When I go to those events, we, I see some of the same people and so I interact with them and, um, what's interesting is, is that a lot of those people, I've also seen ex clients, so it's a little bit, you know, and what, and you know, and that's where you have to navigate the whole dual relationship kind of thing.
[00:29:59] Gordon Brewer: But the big thing is, is that I, I can't tell you how many times that I get. Calls, or I've gotten calls from people that are just people that I've known in the community and they said, oh, so and so who, you know, said I should call you about this particular issue. And so just making sure people know what you do.
[00:30:19] Gordon Brewer: Um, being out there with people and interacting with people, um, doesn't necessarily, it doesn't have to be with the full intent of I'm marketing or, uh, I'm, um, . Networking. You're just making those connections. Just regular human connections, which goes full circle around just this whole marketing thing.
[00:30:43] Gordon Brewer: It's about building relationships.
[00:30:46] James Marland: That's, that's great advice. And I think when we look at it like that, it's a little less intimidating because as therapists, you already, you know, , you do know how to build relationships and you do now have that high emotional I eq and, you're, you're just doing what you are already doing just in a different context.
[00:31:09] Gordon Brewer: Right, right. And the, the, the thing too is, is you gotta be like, going back to what we said at the, I think at the beginning before we lost power, but, um, being, being persistent and consistent with those things. I mean, you can't just go to one event and just . Or, and just expect that to be okay. Check that off the box.
[00:31:31] Gordon Brewer: I don't have to do that again. No, it's a, it's an ongoing thing of just building relationships in the community at a level that you're comfortable with.
[00:31:40] James Marland: Yeah, it does. It takes time. Uh, consistency is important. So that was episode 50. Uh, word of mouth, uh, episode 51 was marketing your Mental Health Services with podcasting
[00:31:54] Gordon Brewer: Mm-Hmm.
[00:31:55] James Marland: So, um, I, for that, the download was just, uh, I compared four or five hosting platforms. 'cause that's a big question I get. Like, where do I host this and how much does it cost?
[00:32:05] James Marland: What do they offer? So I did a comparison chart and put it on a, a Google sheet. And so that's the download.
[00:32:11] Gordon Brewer: Mm-Hmm.
[00:32:11] James Marland: So, uh, with podcasting we talked about the benefits of networking and collaboration, just getting a lot of ideas from other people, but also meeting neat, neat people and just it exposes you to, um, just, uh, some great, uh.
[00:32:27] James Marland: Uh, minds in the field. Uh, we talked about having a goal. So if you have a goal for your podcast, it's much easier to produce and develop and, uh, just knowing why you're doing it and it just, keeping that in focus also helps you build your audience because once again, it's the niche type thing. If you create a podcast for everyone. You know, all therapists or all experts, you're you're gonna get very few people unless you're like, probably really funny. And then you're, then your podcast is about humor, not necessarily about your topic,
[00:33:03] Gordon Brewer: And that works for people. I mean, there are pod, there are podcasts out there. Well, I mean, you know, quick shout out to, uh, Aaron and Nathan at Shrink Think, um, they're, um, . Their podcast is about the therapy experience, but they put so much humor into it, um,
[00:33:22] Gordon Brewer: of just being able
[00:33:23] James Marland: very entertaining.
[00:33:24] Gordon Brewer: Yeah.
[00:33:25] Gordon Brewer: Yeah. And so it, and, and it fits with their personalities too. If you ever get to know Aaron and Nathan, they are just absolutely hilarious and fun to be with. And, um, but yeah, so you, you know, again, it's um, kind of the . Kind of the bullet points that I would say with this is that podcasting is really just a, in many ways, just a another way to network.
[00:33:49] Gordon Brewer: Uh, because the nature of podcasting, if you think about the ones that maybe those of you that listen to podcasts, you're listening to this one obviously, but there's a, there's a sense of intimacy that comes with it where you're . You, you, you know, most of us listen to with our earbuds in or that sort of thing.
[00:34:09] Gordon Brewer: And, um, and so yeah. And so we, um, we have that sense of intimacy, which also gives genuineness. Again, again, being on a podcast and just being yourself and just, you know, interacting with the microphone in a way that you would with people. Um, is . Is, is always helpful. The other thing too is that podcasting is absolutely booming right now.
[00:34:41] Gordon Brewer: I mean, it's, um, it's just, it's just exploding as far as a content, uh, a way to get your content out there. Um, and it's, um. You know, there's, it's, it's quickly replacing blogging, I think to some degree. And again, going back to what we talked about at the beginning about SEO Podcast ties into that as well.
[00:35:05] Gordon Brewer: If you have a podcast and you have those back links and all that kind of thing, it's gonna help your SEO, um, and also establish, establish you as an expert in your field.
[00:35:17] James Marland: Right. And Lisa. Lisa, uh, mustard is from the therapy show is always saying even if you don't wanna do it, long-term release a limited series, you know, 12 issue, 10 issue, five issue, whatever, limited series. Where people can ex get exposed to some of your teaching, your expertness, and so they get to know you, like you and trust you, and you can, that can be a big, that's also, you know, another lead magnet type idea where you just develop some content. And, uh, produce it and put it out there and let people know it's a limited series, and now it's an evergreen marketing calling card postcard for people to be like, oh, they, they do know about this subject. They can help me with my issue. Whether you're a coach, you know, coaching people through issues, relationships, or life transitions, or you're a therapist and you're, you know, you're, you're working with, uh, disorders or those types of stuff.
[00:36:13] Gordon Brewer: Mm-Hmm.
[00:36:14] James Marland: Uh, a podcast can be a really good, even if you're not gonna do it long term, like I have podcasts on my feed that they haven't produced another episode, but I just keep, I keep 'em on, I keep 'em on the feed and like listen to 'em every once in a while 'cause they are just, you know, good, good information.
[00:36:32] James Marland: So.
[00:36:32] Gordon Brewer: Yeah. Yeah. And that, that, that's the thing about podcasting too, is that your, your content becomes evergreen, if you will. And, um, even if it's a older o older episode, um, . People are still picking them up and still listening to 'em, and it's kinda like a, you know, in a way, kinda like a blog, but it's, for many people, it's easier to con consume in that way, I guess, or, or listened to.
[00:36:59] Gordon Brewer: I know when I'm out walking in the mornings, that's what I'm doing. I'm listening to podcasts or an audio book, that kind of thing. Or if I'm in the car especially, I'm, I'm listening to something like that rather than just music, you
[00:37:12] Gordon Brewer: know? Yeah.
[00:37:13] James Marland: Yeah. Lots of podcasts. Awesome. Uh, we'll talk about the Cy Craft Network at the end. , but, but, we'll, we will plug that, um, the, there were two, two episodes left. I have not produced them yet. Uh, so I don't have a download for them or a summary, but, uh, I talked with, uh, David Hall from Psych Maven for episode.
[00:37:37] James Marland: It'll be episode 53. Uh, on marketing with webinars and webinars is sort of like another lead magnet or another. Uh, another free piece of value all, when I say laid magnet, I hope you hear gift . I hope you hear value. I hope you hear service. It's not like manipulation or you know, oh, I'm gonna bait and switch people.
[00:37:59] James Marland: It's, it's really trying to help people with one specific problem. And webinars are just a little bit longer form of that where you, you come in and you do a presentation on one specific issue and. Get people to, um. To, uh, they give you their email address and then you will keep offering them more value and more value.
[00:38:24] James Marland: But every once in a while you offer them something to sell to see if they want to, um, get your paid value.
[00:38:31] Gordon Brewer: Mm-Hmm.
[00:38:32] James Marland: in fact, I am signed up for two webinars. This week because they are solving a simple problem for me. The first one is how to Make interview. Okay. It's with a d script. Uh, D script is my, um, my podcasting editor.
[00:38:48] James Marland: And man, every week they have something amazing and this, this one is how to make interview podcasts with DSS Script. So I, I am already, I already do that. I do that a lot, but there I feel like I could be sharper. So that solves a simple problem. Just as an example, I do that, but I wanna get better at it.
[00:39:08] James Marland: They have the tool, they're gonna show me how they do it. So that solves a simple problem. They're not giving me away the product. They're not, you know, they're, they're not, there's nothing to necessarily buy, but they're helping me use the product better.
[00:39:23] Gordon Brewer: Mm-Hmm.
[00:39:23] James Marland: And then, um,
[00:39:27] Gordon Brewer: Well, one thing I'll interject here, um, is that, uh, you know, one way to think about, um, webinars is that usually they, they are . Um, not to sound too salesy, but they're part of a sales funnel a
[00:39:42] Gordon Brewer: lot of times
[00:39:43] James Marland: a funnel. Sure.
[00:39:44] James Marland: Sure.
[00:39:44] Gordon Brewer: Yeah, yeah. And so, but the webinar, in a webinar, you present why somebody would want to do something or buy something and the benefits of that.
[00:39:55] Gordon Brewer: And then the, um, actual product is the how to, is the how you do do whatever it is that you're teaching or that kind of thing. And so, um. And so that's, that's one way to kind of think about webinars in that sense.
[00:40:14] James Marland: No. Excellent point. Um, and yes, it is part of a sales funnel. It is part of your know, like, and trust. So people eventually, uh. Decide that you are somebody they wanna do business with, but it's, it's really hard to like put something out there like, oh, here's, here's my coaching or consulting service buy from me without them experiencing some of your coaching and consulting service.
[00:40:44] James Marland: So webinars, uh, do a lot. Uh, to, to do that. And it's just a little bit longer form. It can be a little interactive. Right. With, uh, like questions q and A. Um, what, what, uh, now you've done webinars in the past, I know Gordon. Um,
[00:41:02] Gordon Brewer: Mm-Hmm.
[00:41:02] James Marland: has been successful for you? Like, do you have one tip on that?
[00:41:07] Gordon Brewer: Yeah. It's a, it's, it's like, uh, like a le lead. You know, earlier we were talking about lead magnets, and as you just said, you know, webinars could be a form of a lead magnet, but, um, I think you, you have to give just really good value. Um, you know, whether somebody buys something from you or signs up for something from you, um, if you can make it, you know, make it really, um, valuable content that's rich and that people are gonna find value in, um, that's just gonna help you all the way around.
[00:41:44] Gordon Brewer: Um, I think, um, you know, you, as we said too, give your best stuff away. Um. And then people will, you know, people, people can, um, that resonates with people.
[00:42:01] James Marland: And, uh, I know, um. So people often don't buy the first time they see things, something. So I know I've been to several different webinars and eventually bought from somebody. So
[00:42:15] James Marland: don't, you know, everybody's on their journey. Not everybody is ready to buy right away, but if you keep providing that value when they're ready, they, they will buy.
[00:42:24] James Marland: You don't have to manipulate people. Like that's if, if you're manipulating people into buying something, that's, that's probably not . Uh, your dream client,
[00:42:34] Gordon Brewer: mm-Hmm.
[00:42:34] James Marland: dream client is somebody who's like, oh, I need this. It's solving my problem.
[00:42:39] Gordon Brewer: Mm-Hmm.
[00:42:39] James Marland: I know how it can help, and I trust them. So,
[00:42:42] Gordon Brewer: Mm-Hmm. .Mm-Hmm.
[00:42:43] James Marland: uh, all right, and the, the episode 52, which I have not produced yet, is Advanced Marketing Strategies or Five Advanced Marketing Strategies with Joshua Bmal. Brummel Brummel from, uh, therapy Flow. Uh, man, he was awesome. He had a great, uh, episode. I really respect him and his services. And, uh, we talked a lot about lead magnets and, um, niching and uh. One of the, one of the things he recommended, which is like Mark segmentation. So if you have an email marketing list, you know who the, the program knows who opened the email and the program knows who clicked it.
[00:43:30] James Marland: And he suggests you can segment some of those people and either target them with different emails or different ads. And he mentioned something called a . A pixel. I don't know if it's a Facebook pixel or Google Pixel or something where that. Tracks people across platforms. And so ads can show up in their feeds that you can target them if they click something or if they abandon your lead magnet.
[00:43:58] James Marland: You know, they go in and they like get halfway through, but they don't fill out the form. You can target them with an email or an ad that says, Hey, you missed out on this opportunity. Would you like to do that? So I thought he was really good. Uh. What do you have Market segmentations, Gordon, or do what do you think about
[00:44:17] Gordon Brewer: Well, yeah, so with my, particularly with my email, um, if there is, um, something I'm promoting, um, at least in my email platform, which I use AWeber, um, you can, uh, you can tag people when they click on a link or open an email, that kind of thing, which is what you're talking about. And what's nice is that when you tag 'em is, is you can maybe follow up with, okay,
[00:44:46] Gordon Brewer: What questions do you have about this or, you know, um, you know, that they're interested? Um, , you know, um, it, it's funny. It, it, yes, uh, this week I've been kinda starting the process of car shopping and, um. Uh, Google knows everything that I'm doing. Um, and it's just amazing how many car ads show up on everything, you know, whether it's Facebook or whatever.
[00:45:17] Gordon Brewer: All of that is, is connected, like it or not. That's what the, um, the world we live in. Um, and I know people feel differently about, you know, having things tracked, but, um, you know, it's, um. Uh, um, I had a car salesman reach out to me, you know,
[00:45:39] Gordon Brewer: after,
[00:45:39] James Marland: Wow.
[00:45:41] Gordon Brewer: of course I, I did get my, give them my email and my phone number and everything, and after I typed in my phone number and my phone was lighting up like five minutes later, again, that's high pressure sales, which we're not into in this kind of.
[00:45:58] Gordon Brewer: Industry, but those, those tools are available to us. And I think, um, you know, if you can, particularly if you're starting your practice or trying to grow your practice, some of those things can be helpful and you can also do 'em in a tasteful and non high pressure way.
[00:46:17] James Marland: Awesome. And, uh, I am, I am going to be doing a webinar with Joshua. . Uh, it's the last, uh, oh, I'll have to put it in the show notes. It's the end of January. We're gonna be talking about, um, lead magnets. He did that, uh, presentation about on Whitney's conference about, um, the seven, oh, I'm gonna get it wrong.
[00:46:39] James Marland: Sorry, Joshua. But it was like seven things to have really good lead magnets to like connect with people.
[00:46:45] Gordon Brewer: Mm-Hmm.
[00:46:46] James Marland: I'm sure the title's much better than what I
[00:46:48] James Marland: just said,
[00:46:49] Gordon Brewer: Okay.
[00:46:50] James Marland: it, it was so impressive. And he's gonna, he's gonna redo that with me in a webinar form and, um, I just hope everybody will come to see that.
[00:47:00] James Marland: 'cause it was, it was eye-opening and also simple and clear just how he is. So, um, that was, uh, so that was episode 52, uh, five Advanced Marketing Strategies and I will have a download for that as well.
[00:47:16] Gordon Brewer: Mm-Hmm.
[00:47:19] James Marland: All right, so those were the, the episodes. Um, and this was our recap show, uh, Gordon, do you normally I end with one thing, so, and then also where can people find you? So I'll do my one thing and then you can think about one thing you want people to remember. And I think the, uh, the thing that is me about all the, the, the episodes that we did is authenticity, you know, being yourself, uh, being, being authentic. Uh, don't try to sell to everyone. Just sell to the. Sell or help the person that you can help the best and uh, work with them, get that worked out really well. And then that is gonna connect with other people.
[00:48:10] James Marland: So, um, I love, I love the marketing, um, to one person being really specific and niched down. And then, um. Be being authentic in, in all domains. You know, social media and your p and your and your online and your blogging and all those things. So, um, that's my one thing I want people to remember. Uh, Gordon, do you have one thing that you want people to remember from this episode?
[00:48:38] James Marland: I.
[00:48:38] Gordon Brewer: Well, I think, um, what I think about marketing is that, um, the truth of the batter is, is that we don't have to convince people to use our services. There are more than enough people out there that are looking for us and looking for our services and looking for help. And so I think, uh, marketing is a way of just simply making it so that people can find you easily.
[00:49:04] Gordon Brewer: Of putting yourself there out there, whether it's on online, on, you know, through networking or all the things that we talked about in this, this particular episode is putting yourself out there in a way where people can easily find you and, and develop a relationship with you and connect with you. Um, you know, my, my office building, I, this is kind of a metaphor, is, um, actually located on a
[00:49:32] Gordon Brewer: A busy corner in downtown Kingsport where I am. And, um, I'm, I'm always curious, I wonder how many people have learned about us just by passing our building. It's placed in a, it, uh, not intent. I mean, just luckily my building's in a place that's very visible. And so, um, think about marketing in that way.
[00:49:56] Gordon Brewer: Just putting yourself out there, making yourself visible, and, um, creating ways in which people can connect with you in a lot of different, through a lot of different avenues.
[00:50:08] James Marland: Great, great wisdom. Uh, thanks for being with me these last two days,
[00:50:13] Gordon Brewer: Mm-Hmm?
[00:50:14] James Marland: Gordon. Uh, do you have any projects you wanna talk about or where can people find you online?
[00:50:20] Gordon Brewer: Yes. Well, like a few places you can find me. One is just my website, practice of therapy.com. You can go there and connect with me, um, and also, uh, through the Site Craft Network, which this podcast is a part of. And um, just a quick plug for that is just that the site craft. Network is really a community.
[00:50:43] Gordon Brewer: It's a community of like-minded podcasters in this kind of space of, of mental health, business building, uh, self-help, all of those kinds of things. And, um, we just support each other in the network and help each other with different things like, um, increasing our downloads, helping us connect with advertisers, um, that
[00:51:08] Gordon Brewer: Want to pay us to be on our programs and, um, yeah. And so you can find that at just simply site craft network.com.
[00:51:17] James Marland: Great. Thank you. I'm proud to be a part of the Side Craft Network. It's been really beneficial, so thanks for that. All right. Well that, that is the show. Thank you, Gordon, for being with me.
[00:51:30] Gordon Brewer: Mm-Hmm. . My pleasure.
[00:51:33] James Marland: Um, so this is the, uh, scaling therapy practice where we encourage you to take intentional steps towards sustainable growth.
[00:51:41] James Marland: We'll see you next time.
[00:51:43] James Marland: Thanks so much for joining us on the episode today.
[00:51:48] James Marland: If you wouldn't mind, please give us a review on iTunes or your podcast, player of choice. It really helps us find new listeners and do more cool things with the show. Make sure you sign up for the seven steps for more clients using lead magnets. That's coming up super quickly. January 25th at 2:00 PM.
[00:52:09] James Marland: Eastern 1:00 PM central. Uh, look forward to having you there. Listen to Josh. Bromo. from therapy flow. As once again. He, he knows his stuff. And, uh, it's a very clear message. So make sure you sign up for that. Finally, I wanted to share about the, to begin to share about the future of the scaling Fabry practice. Uh, season three. I want to focus more on helping therapists and the healers. Uh, get their content into the hands of more people using online courses, online content. Uh, I kind of, I wrote out a, a little mini. Mission statement, I suppose. That I'll flesh out in the next episode. But I support healing experts use online content to reach, improve. And transform the lives of their dream clients. So, what does that mean?
[00:53:06] James Marland: How am I going to impact that? What is our online content? What our dream clients, you know, how do you improve those things? Uh, stay tuned, listen to the next episode. And I'll talk about my vision of season three and moving forward for the scaling peppery practice. So stay tuned. Uh, we will see you next episode and, uh, register for that webinar.
