STP 113 | Danny Iny Part 1
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[00:00:49] Dany Iny: As in who, who is the buyer? What is the brand? Who's the seller? What is the brand? And then there is the process of coming to the sale. So the path. And, and those became kind of the [00:01:00] three levers of this modality, the obvious offer, the resonant identity and the intuitive path. Are you selling what they really want to buy or are they compromising? Hi friend. Welcome to the scaling therapy practice. I'm James Marland, your course creation coach.
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[00:01:38] James Marland: Hello friend, and welcome back to the Scaling Therapy Practice. This is James Marlin. This is the show where we help mission-driven leaders launch life-changing online courses. today I have a very special guest, Danny Iny, from, uh, Mirasee and, uh, the Mirasee Company, uh, the Mirasee podcast. I. And, [00:02:00] uh, Danny, uh, and the book Effortless, which is kind of one of the big things that we're gonna talk about. You got your book there? Yep. Yeah. Uh, I like the book so much that I bought.
[00:02:09] James Marland: I got the audio version and I bought the physical version because I wanted to like, take notes in it and highlight things and just have it with me. So Danny, welcome to the show.
[00:02:21] Dany Iny: James, thank you so much for having me. I'm super excited to be here and I think we're gonna have a lot of fun.
[00:02:26] James Marland: Yep, for sure. So, before we get into some of the elements of Effortless, this is my introduction for Danny.
[00:02:32] James Marland: Uh, I, I, uh, I went to a mastermind that he hosted in, in Canada, and I was a little bit skeptical of, is this gonna be worth my time? I mean, like, what, what am I gonna learn by listInyng to a bunch of other people's problems and. Uh, spending, you know, I had to drive there and then spend a couple days and what was I really gonna get out of it?
[00:02:54] James Marland: So I was, I was kind of skeptical, but I was just really blown away by all the [00:03:00] advice that was there, the quality of people who were there, the speakers and the, the other, um, mastermind leaders that were there. It, it was perfect and I really came away from it. Just energized and, uh, ready to. Ready to take on more.
[00:03:16] James Marland: So, Danny, thanks for that. That's my introduction to you for the thanks for that mastermind.
[00:03:21] Dany Iny: Well, thank you for the very gracious introduction. It was wonderful having you there. And, uh, yeah, let's, let's get into it.
[00:03:28] James Marland: Okay. So, uh, we, I wanted to. Talk a little bit more about the, the Effortless book. The title, the whole title is Effortless, the Counterintuitive Business Growth Formula for coaches, consultants, authors, speakers, and experts.
[00:03:45] James Marland: And so, um, you, you explained a little bit in the book, but why did you write this book? Like what led you to writing the book? Effortless.
[00:03:54] Dany Iny: Yeah, so. I've been doing this for a long time. I've been building this business [00:04:00] for going on something like 15 years, and I experienced a lot of success right outta the gate.
[00:04:07] Dany Iny: Like in the first five years, we kind of went from zero to multiple millions in revenue and just felt like everything was up into the right, and then we hit a plateau. And we kind of stayed stuck at this like almost $4 million a year mark for several years, and it just felt like treading water and it was really frustrating.
[00:04:28] Dany Iny: And so what I did was I really reflected on, well, what was different? What felt different in the early years versus these later years? And I. Was able to develop this framework. That kind of gave me a sense of, okay, I think I understand what the big levers are, and I started applying, uh, that framework and my business exploded.
[00:04:51] Dany Iny: We tripled the, the size of the business in a matter of years. Um, and I, at the same time was applying the same framework with my [00:05:00] clients and with my students, and they were seeing similar growth and acceleration. I was like, you know what? I think there's, I think there's something here. So I should write it down and, and I did that partially 'cause I wanted to share it.
[00:05:10] Dany Iny: And partially because the act of writing something down kind of clarifies your thinking and helps you fill in the gaps in your own understanding. So I wanted to basically turn this thing that I had sketched in the back of a napkin for myself into something that could help a lot more people.
[00:05:28] James Marland: Yeah. And, uh, you said you wrote it for yourself and your, your students and your clients.
[00:05:33] James Marland: Like, who are those people? Like who are the people that you were beside yourself? Who are those people that you wrote the book for?
[00:05:39] Dany Iny: Yeah, so I mean, really I think this is a framework that applies to any kind of business, but specifically the people that I tend to work with are coaches, consultants, uh, creators, expertise based entrepreneurs.
[00:05:52] James Marland: Great. Uh, now you, you said something that like my mind keyed in. You're like, there's levers to pull. Like there's, there's things [00:06:00] you can like do to make, uh, to make your business run better and smoother. Um, and you outline them in the book. So what are those, what are those three levers and can you give us a high level view of what those three are?
[00:06:13] Dany Iny: Absolutely. So a lot of this kind of reverses reverse engineers to an idea that I first picked up from Jeffrey Gitr, who's an expert on sales. And he has this line where he says, you know, people hate being sold to, but they love to buy. And it's one of those lines, it's really powerful because it intuitively rings true.
[00:06:36] Dany Iny: Right. We all kind of relate to it. It resonates, but then it makes you kind of stop and think. It's like, okay, but then what's the difference exactly between being sold and buying? And the big difference is about getting what you want versus settling in some way. So the way I kind of,
[00:06:56] James Marland: yeah. Can you flesh getting what you want?
[00:06:58] James Marland: Besides settling [00:07:00] I I, that resonates with me. Do you have an example of that? I.
[00:07:04] Dany Iny: Yeah, absolutely. So, um, this is actually an example I share in the book. So I, I'm an early morning riser. Every morning I go for a walk around 6:00 AM and for a long time I would pass by a Starbucks and I would get there just as it opened and I would get my tea and I would keep going.
[00:07:22] Dany Iny: And, uh, I don't do that anymore precisely because I was not really getting what I wanted. I was settling. So I would go there and I would order. And what I would order was an Earl Gray tea with oat milk. Now, the thing is, I didn't really want an Earl gray tea, nor did I want oat milk. What I wanted was a Roose tea, which they do not have, and what I wanted with it was macadamia milk, which they also do not have now.
[00:07:58] Dany Iny: They never knew that I [00:08:00] was not ordering what I want because. They never asked. I never shared. And the general expectation is you go to a store and you order, you know, off of the menu, off of the things that they have available. And I was compromising because I wanted to get a tea on my walk, but at some point I was like, you know what?
[00:08:17] Dany Iny: This isn't really what I want. I'll just make my tea at home and take it with me. And I stopped going. That's the difference, right? Going somewhere and getting exactly the. The, the product service and also buying experience that you want versus are you compromising in some way? Right? The worst words in the English language to make the difference between buying and being sold is, I'm sorry, we can't do that, but let me tell you why you should want this instead.
[00:08:46] Dany Iny: Or why this instead is good enough
[00:08:47] James Marland: that you're selling to people then like Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And you feel either a little disappointed or even taken advantage of if it's not. What they promised.
[00:08:59] Dany Iny: Well, and [00:09:00] maybe it is, maybe, maybe they're giving you exactly what they promised, but there's just a misalignment between Yeah.
[00:09:04] Dany Iny: What they're promising and what you want. So it's, it's not, you know, nefarious, it's not like you're necessarily being taken advantage of. Right. It's just that, you know, you're, you're not getting what you actually want and what you actually want. It comes down to three things. There is the offer, like the actual thing that you're buying, the product or the service there is the person you're buying it from, right?
[00:09:29] Dany Iny: As in who, who is the buyer? What is the brand? Who's the seller? What is the brand? And then there is the process of coming to the sale. So the path. And, and those became kind of the three levers of this modality, the obvious offer, the resonant identity and the intuitive path. Are you selling what they really want to buy or are they compromising?
[00:09:49] Dany Iny: Are you who they really wanna buy from? Or are they compromising? And are you selling in a way that creates a really smooth and intuitive experience for them? Or does it [00:10:00] feel clunky and jarring? And again, you know, they're, they're settling. Hmm. To make it work because they don't have an alternative. Right.
[00:10:07] Dany Iny: If you don't have an ob, what I call an obvious offer and a resonant identity and an intuitive path, it doesn't mean nobody's ever gonna buy from you. It just means there's more friction in the way. It's not effortless for them, and that means it's not effortless for you, and all kinds of growth become harder.
[00:10:23] James Marland: Yeah. That, that makes a lot of sense. Just, just pull on those until you get, give people exactly what they want, how they wanna do it, and who they want it from.
[00:10:32] Dany Iny: That, that is a lot of what it comes down to, but it, it also works as a, so you can use this process in a few ways. First of all, it's a diagnostic tool, right?
[00:10:41] Dany Iny: If I'm, mm-hmm. Not seeing the growth that I want, if everything feels just harder than I'd like it to, well, where's the weak link? Is it that I'm not really selling what people wanna buy? Is it that I'm not really who they wanna buy from? Or is it that the sales and marketing process is awkward and clunky?
[00:10:59] Dany Iny: So I can kind of [00:11:00] find, okay, where's the biggest area of opportunity? And then inside the book we unpack, well, how do you make it smoother and how do you create a better offer, identity, experience, et cetera.
[00:11:11] James Marland: So let's, uh, let's, uh, dive a little deeper on one of those, one of the levers there. How about the, uh, the obvious offer?
[00:11:18] James Marland: Um, you, you told a story in the, the chapter on the obvious offer about the Amazon and some of their, their strategy.
[00:11:29] Dany Iny: Yeah, sure. It's a really, it's a really powerful anecdote. So, um, this was from an interview that Jeff Bezos did years and years ago with a journalist, and the journalist was asking him something like, you know, what's the hot new trend that you're, that that's taking a lot of your mind space.
[00:11:46] Dany Iny: And, uh, Bezos's answer was very telling. He, he said, you know, I actually don't spend a lot of my time thinking about what is changing. I spend most of my time thinking about what is always gonna stay the same. [00:12:00] And the journalist says, well, what do you mean? And so Bezos says, well, look, you know, let's imagine five, 10 years in the future, I can't imagine it's ever gonna happen that someone's gonna call me up and say, Jeff, you know, I love Amazon, I love it.
[00:12:13] Dany Iny: I just. I wish you had less products. Right? That's not gonna happen. People are always going to want more selection. They're never gonna say, you know, Jeff, I love Amazon. I just, I wish the prices were higher. Never gonna happen. People are always gonna want low prices and they're never gonna say, Jeff, you know, I love Amazon.
[00:12:32] Dany Iny: I just. I wish it took longer for things to get to my house. They're always gonna want faster delivery. So those are kind of the three things that are always gonna stay the same. People are gonna want more and better selection, lower prices, and faster delivery. And we spend most of our time making sure that we are leaning into catering to those three things that are never gonna change.
[00:12:53] Dany Iny: And in a lot of ways it's, it's instructive. This is what we all need to do. Like stop thinking about what's the, what's the hot trend and [00:13:00] is it this week? Is it about AI or is it about bots, or is it about this or that? You know, marketing tactic. No. Fundamentally, what is it that people really want from you?
[00:13:10] Dany Iny: This is actually an idea that I've elaborated over the last year in my Catalyst framework for developing super high value offers that, um, I, I know that, you know, we've got some cool things coming up about that, and you're going to tell your folks and they'll have an invitation to come and see firsthand some of that stuff.
[00:13:27] Dany Iny: But it really all comes down to creating something that people really wanna buy.
[00:13:32] James Marland: The thing you really wanna buy, if it really resonates with you, it glows. Like, it's so much, it's not just a little bit different than everything else on the shelf. It's like it sings to you and you're like, oh, this is exactly what I want.
[00:13:46] James Marland: And I know in the book you had some exercises on you how to do that. Uh, I think you, uh, the three I picked out was the perfect world guarantee, three wishes, and. 11, [00:14:00] 11, 11 star experience, 10 times more obvious. Those are some of the, some of the, like, if you're struggling with this, those are some of the things that you could do.
[00:14:09] James Marland: Can you pick one of them and explain, you know, one of the, one of the tack or one of the diagnostic tools to help you pick out and offer that is, um, exactly what people want.
[00:14:21] Dany Iny: Yeah, sure. So, um, all of these are different thought exercises to help you get from where you are and the current blinders that you probably have on of like, well this is the offer, this is the best I can do, you know, this is as far as we can go, et cetera, and get from there to what is something that would be just dramatically, almost from your current vantage point, unimaginably better.
[00:14:44] Dany Iny: So let's do the 11 star, uh, experience exercise. And this is a, this is an idea that comes from, uh, Brian Chesky, the one of the founders of Airbnb. And it's a thought exercise they go through. They ask themselves, okay, well in the, in the category we're operating, what's a five star [00:15:00] experience? And we know that because it's a known quantity, right?
[00:15:03] Dany Iny: So you could just map out and describe, okay, this is, this is best in class for us right now. This is a five star experience. Like, okay, great with that as a baseline. What would be an 11 star experience? Right? And you really think about all the dimensions where you could stretch and extend. And, you know, the, the gap from five to 11 stars is so high.
[00:15:23] Dany Iny: We're not saying what would a six star experience or a seven, it's like 11 stars. It's really extreme. So it's kind of an invitation to get a little bit wacky, a little bit wild, a little bit crazy. It's like. I know, okay, a five star check-in experience at a hotel would be that they see you coming and by virtue of facial recognition or whatever, they know it's you and they greet you at the door.
[00:15:49] Dany Iny: So what would an 11 star experience be? You know, maybe they surprise you and they have someone waiting for you at the airport and they take you there in a helicopter and they serve you. You know, you, [00:16:00] you can go, keep going on. And the, the framing of 11 stars is like. There's no pressure to operationalize this.
[00:16:07] Dany Iny: You know that this is a fantasy, but in going through that exercise, you'll have a lot of kernels of good ideas, and you can say, okay, maybe the 11 star version is a little bit. Extreme, but if we were to then dial it back to six or seven or eight stars, you know, maybe we could do that. Maybe we could do some really cool stuff here.
[00:16:28] Dany Iny: So that's an example of, and there are other thought exercises as you, as you mentioned in the book. Um, but the whole point here is to get beyond the blinders of what you've just become accustomed to thinking about, well, this is how we do it and this is best in class for where we are. And really expanding your thinking of what would constitute best in class, especially from the perspective of your customer.
[00:16:51] Dany Iny: Right? If you think about, actually, uh, another great example of this is Tesla. I. Right. So when you think about what people would [00:17:00] think of as a five star driving experience, um, before Tesla came out with their, their current fleet of cars, you might say, well, it's a smooth ride and, you know, zero to 60 in no time, flat, and you know, the good air conditioning, good sound, heated seats, whatever.
[00:17:17] Dany Iny: But it wouldn't have been on anyone's radar to say, well, you know, I'd really like for this car to parallel park for me.
[00:17:24] James Marland: Seems a little extreme. Yeah, it
[00:17:26] Dany Iny: seems extreme. Yeah. And, and that's kind of the point. Whatever you're going to start with is like, let's go really extreme. So for example, the car completely drives itself, which, you know, they, they say that they're on the verge of getting to, but they've been saying that for, I don't know, 10, 15 years.
[00:17:42] Dany Iny: So who knows. Mm-hmm. Right? But they've been working on that for a very long time. But let's start with that 11 star experience. Let's dial it way back and say, well, what if we could just get it to park? What if we can get it to come to you at five miles an hour from the other side of the parking lot.
[00:17:59] James Marland: Hmm.
[00:17:59] Dany Iny: [00:18:00] Right. Which is already like crazy amazing beyond the realm of what was possible when these cars came on the market. But it, it's kind of a process of like, think to the crazy, like jetsons level fantasy and then let's dial it back to like the first, first viable step, which is still ahead
[00:18:18] James Marland: of what we can do now.
[00:18:19] James Marland: I'm thinking back to, uh, the first time I got a smartphone, I got it for like email and calendar and to-do lists, and then like a month or two in, I'm, I'm a little embarrassed to say this, but a month or two in, I discovered GPS mm-hmm. And maps, and I'm like, wait, this knows where I am. It can tell me where to go.
[00:18:40] James Marland: Like, it was a world changer. It was something I hadn't asked for, but I was thrilled that it was there. And those are the types of things that make your product just that much better than the, the other people on the competition. 'cause the, the product I had before this I think was a pom pilot or [00:19:00] something with a stylus and you would, you know, hunt and pack and type and do things like that.
[00:19:04] James Marland: I remember those days. Yeah. Yeah. Uh uh. That's where I got introduced to the game be jeweled. But anyways, it's the match three game. Um. Uh, yeah. Sidetracked. So, yeah. But, but it, I didn't even expect, you know, I was just getting an upgrade. I thought I was buying something in the same product, but I was actually buying something so much better than what I thought it was.
[00:19:30] James Marland: And it, it, uh, it delighted me. And I think those are the type of things that, you know, what are those things that you can do? Now, this might get a little deep. You can't do everything all at once, right? Like, you can't add helicopter rides. To your, to your Airbnb transportation when you're just starting. So, uh, is there, I feel bad asking for a, a quick overview of how to add these things to your, your existing [00:20:00] product, but is there, i i, I know it's in the book, but what, what would you say for somebody who's like, oh, I can't do everything, but I wanna make my experience better.
[00:20:07] James Marland: What do you do?
[00:20:09] Dany Iny: Yeah, so it, it's, I I'm gonna do the very fast version. This is, yeah. It's the fast version. Yep. But you start by just brainstorming a ton of ideas, and so let's say you put each of them on a post-it note, so you've got like 15 different ideas. Mm-hmm. Then you take a poster board and you divide it into four quadrants.
[00:20:26] Dany Iny: Right? So going up and down is gonna be high cost and low cost, or high effort, low effort, right. In other words, what's gonna be really expensive for you to do? What's gonna be really easy for you to do? And then left and right is high impact and low impact. And then you take all your ideas and you just put them wherever they belong on the board.
[00:20:46] Dany Iny: And then there's a process for working around that board, right? You start with the stuff that is low cost, low effort, but high impact, and you wanna do those right away. The stuff that's gonna be low cost, but low impact, you want to [00:21:00] kind of gradually implement them because they A, in aggregate, they add up.
[00:21:04] Dany Iny: You never wanna do the stuff that's low impact, but high cost. But the real opportunity is the stuff that is high impact and high cost, because that's r and d.
[00:21:14] James Marland: Hmm. That's
[00:21:15] Dany Iny: the stuff where you're not gonna get a big lift right away, but you know, if you can figure it out and maybe it takes you six months or a year, whatever it is, that's where you're gonna find real competitive advantage.
[00:21:25] Dany Iny: So that's how you kind of work around the wheel of all your ideas.
[00:21:30] James Marland: Great. That was a very good. 92nd explanation. I loved it. You're good at that. All right, so we're gonna, we're gonna wrap up a little bit. Um, we just talked about the, um. The obvious offer. Uh, next episode we're gonna talk about one of the other, um, the, one of the other levers to pull.
[00:21:50] James Marland: So this will be a two-parter for you for the people listInyng. Uh, Danny, what, I know you got some things coming up, and also you have some resources. You know, [00:22:00] you're, you're like the, the treasure trove of resources on your website. So can you tell people what's coming up for you and where, what, where can they find more of your material?
[00:22:10] Dany Iny: Sure. And thank you. So, um, you can always go to M-I-R-A-S-E-E Dot com. Um, you can check out the book effort list. It's on Amazon. It's like, I don't know, five bucks on Kindle or something like that. It's not a, you know, it's not some expensive course or something like that. Um, we do have some cool resources if you want to check out.
[00:22:29] Dany Iny: It's at, um, I believe the link is Effortless Rocks slash Toolkit, and I haven't looked in a while. What do we have in there? We have, um, the audiobook version of the entire book, plus a whole bunch of extra cool resources. So you're welcome to grab that if you're so inclined. Um, but we've also got As, as James, you alluded, we've got some really cool stuff.
[00:22:53] Dany Iny: Um, coming out that we've been developing. Um, and, uh, I'm very fortunate that when we do that, we [00:23:00] have a lot of colleagues and partners who help us spread the word, including James. So if, uh, everyone who's listInyng to this, you want to know how you can get kind of some of our best cutting edge training, the best thing you can do is very carefully read every email that James sends you.
[00:23:15] Dany Iny: And when you see one, um, about me, you know, click on the link and do what it says on the page.
[00:23:22] James Marland: Yeah, absolutely. And you know, I, I, uh, I'm, I'm, I'm a fan and I'm a, like, I resonate with, uh, the methods, uh, that Danny puts out and his, like, we'll talk about this next episode, the resonant identity, like who he is and, um, what he stands for.
[00:23:42] James Marland: So, um. Yeah. Anyways, that's my endorsement. Uh, very bad with transitions here, but I have open loop. Loop.
[00:23:48] Dany Iny: No, that's, that's a great open loop and cliff,
[00:23:50] James Marland: great open
[00:23:51] Dany Iny: loop. Okay, join us again next week, everyone. Join
[00:23:53] James Marland: us again next week. I have a part two for my, uh, my master mastermind story too, so [00:24:00] you'll get to hear part two for that as well.
[00:24:02] James Marland: So we're gonna, we're gonna end there, everybody. Thanks so much for listInyng. I hope you got a lot about, uh, learning about how to make your, your offer effortless and got you some really cool ideas. And now it's time to put your mission in motion.
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