STP 112 | How to Transform your Life's Work Without Starting Over
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[00:00:00]
[00:00:06] Jill Greenbaum: We're all born, we will all die. And we spend a lot of time talking about the early transitions in our life, birth, schooling, marriage, partnerships, divorce, maybe sickness, but rarely dying and death. And since it is part of something we'll all experience, I think those are the conversations we need to have.
[00:00:25] Jill Greenbaum: And so that's my current interest in helping people do that work. But it is a major pivot from what I have done in the
[00:00:30] Jill Greenbaum: past.
[00:00:32] James Marland Podcaster: Hey, scaling therapy practice listeners, AI is changing everything about the work we do. I'm sure you've seen it and you've felt it, and it's even changing the SEO and how we show up on web pages. And honestly, if you're, if you're like me, the, the change of pace that things are changing, it's an awkward sentence, but the change of pace is just overwhelming.
[00:00:57] James Marland Podcaster: I need a simple plan, something I can do [00:01:00] over and over again with clear instructions that I can do myself. So I called Daniel Fava, one of the best SEO experts I know for private practices, and he's gonna put together a free live session to walk us through a simple SEO plan. It's called a simple SEO strategy for your private practice.
[00:01:22] It is happening Friday, April 25th, 11:00 AM to 12:00 PM
[00:01:27] James Marland Podcaster: click the link in the show notes to save your seat because if the right people can't find you online then, then you can't help 'em. So let's change that.
[00:01:43] Sometimes life calls for a pivot that's a bold step into something new. But as you're gonna learn from today's guest, we never really start from zero. When you pivot, you bring forward your lessons, your life lessons, the skills you've learned.[00:02:00]
[00:02:00] Your relationships and the heart that shaped you. I'm gonna introduce you today to Jill Greenbaum. She's a friend and a coach, consultant, and a lifelong educator who's making a powerful shift in her business. You're gonna be surprised at what she's, what her current business is, to what she's moving forward.
[00:02:22] But when you take a look at it, it's just another. Evolutionary step. It's another meta metamorphosis in her career as she's always growing and learning.
[00:02:32] After decades of helping others learn and grow. Jill's now transitioning into guiding the important end of life conversations that people need to have so they can live well and plan well for their end of life. So let's dive into her story and explore what it really means to pivot with a purpose.
[00:02:55] Speaker 3: Hi friend. Welcome to the scaling therapy practice. I'm James [00:03:00] Marland, your course creation coach.
[00:03:02] Speaker 3: I'm here to help
[00:03:03] Speaker: therapists who want to scale their reach with effective online courses.
[00:03:08] Speaker 3: I'll share with you all the tools, tips,
[00:03:10] Speaker 3: and technology I've learned along the way that will help you put your mission in motion.
[00:03:21] James Marland: Hello friend, and welcome back to the Scaling Therapy Practice. This is James Marlin. This is the show where we help mission-driven leaders launch life-changing online courses. I am here with my friend Jill Greenbaum. She is a, coach consultant, and she's going through a pivot in her business, and I met her at an event, and it's just been a wonderful relationship.
[00:03:45] James Marland: I've learned a lot. She's a, a teacher and coach at heart,
[00:03:49] Jill Greenbaum: Hmm.
[00:03:50] James Marland: I, I'm really pleased to have her on the show. Jill, welcome to the show.
[00:03:53] Jill Greenbaum: Thanks so much, James. I'm delighted to be here.
[00:03:56] James Marland: So can you tell us, we're gonna talk about pivoting [00:04:00] today and
[00:04:00] Jill Greenbaum: Right?
[00:04:00] James Marland: business, doing something a little different than what you started out doing. So Jill, why don't you catch us up, get us caught up to speed, and tell us about what you've been doing for the last several years, and bring us up to the point where you decided I need to make a pivot.
[00:04:16] Jill Greenbaum: Absolutely. Going back a couple of decades, 'cause I've been around the planet a few times. I used to be a public school teacher in New York City, always working with children with special needs. And so in those settings I was a teacher, principal and administrator. And that led me to a doctorate in curriculum development, which is really perfect around course design.
[00:04:36] Jill Greenbaum: And um, I also had some work which will show up later when we talk more. Um, I was a volunteer and then paid staff in rape crisis centers in the us.
[00:04:46] James Marland: Mm.
[00:04:47] Jill Greenbaum: from back in the seventies, and that's related to the pivot that I'm doing. But I spent time, um, working in schools and also then shifted to working as a consultant.
[00:04:59] Jill Greenbaum: So I've had [00:05:00] my own business for over 24 years focusing on curriculum development or in the business world, we'd say instructional design and training trainers. To be better trainers. So that was a big part of what I did when I consulted for Fortune 500 companies, and I love that work. And I, it led to a lot of other things.
[00:05:20] Jill Greenbaum: And one of those things is becoming a visual practitioner. So maybe you've seen someone at a conference. And they're up at a giant piece of paper up at the wall and they're scribing and drawing what the speaker is saying. And so I moved into that field in part because of my consulting, realizing that the visuals in training materials back in the mid nineties weren't what they could have been.
[00:05:42] Jill Greenbaum: So I wanted to create some of my own, and that led me to become. A visual practitioner, which led to more work as a facilitator, which is different than being a trainer and also into coaching. And so I, um, I'm an appreciative inquiry coach, so that's a [00:06:00] particular view on how you approach coaching and life and all of that.
[00:06:03] Jill Greenbaum: And one thing just led to another, and it seemed really seamless because I love to learn and share what I learn. And those are the variety of ways in which I did it. So that was the business that was really rocking for. A good two decades. And then I, I, long story short, made a business trip to Singapore and thought, oh my gosh, I need to learn about, you know, the culture I'm gonna be seeing.
[00:06:26] Jill Greenbaum: So I read a book on Buddhism. I visited many temples and became. Consequently Buddhist in orientation, and so I'm a formal student now, and that led to where I am now, which is with a deep interest of in end of life issues and wanting to help people have those really important conversations because.
[00:06:48] Jill Greenbaum: We're all born, we will all die. And we spend a lot of time talking about the early transitions in our life, birth, schooling, marriage, partnerships, divorce, maybe sickness, [00:07:00] but rarely dying and death. And since it is part of something we'll all experience, I think those are the conversations we need to have.
[00:07:06] Jill Greenbaum: And so that's my current interest in helping people do that work. But it is a major pivot from what I have done in the past.
[00:07:13] James Marland: I'm, I'm, uh, as you're telling your story, I'm like, blinking. I'm like, you can't, you can't hear it on the podcast, but I'm like, it's like such a whiplash of a transition from educational design and communication. Well, the communication part really overlaps, but, you know,
[00:07:28] Jill Greenbaum: Sure.
[00:07:29] James Marland: design, coaching to like having, you know, making these last moments count and the end of life conversations is totally different.
[00:07:37] James Marland: Audience.
[00:07:38] Jill Greenbaum: Yes.
[00:07:39] James Marland: uh, like I'm trying to connect the dots in my head. How do you go, how do you go from a successful business for two, two
[00:07:48] Jill Greenbaum: Mm-hmm.
[00:07:48] James Marland: however long it was
[00:07:49] Jill Greenbaum: Sure.
[00:07:50] James Marland: a completely new business? Well, maybe like 90% new business with new clients, new
[00:07:56] Jill Greenbaum: Mm-hmm.
[00:07:59] James Marland: new [00:08:00] like,
[00:08:01] Jill Greenbaum: New identity.
[00:08:02] James Marland: new everything.
[00:08:03] Jill Greenbaum: totally. And James, you are in the position of my. Potential clients, right, who don't know me at all, or if people know me, because I've been part of international organizations and sat on boards in my field. So people know me around the world as a visual practitioner, as a consultant for a German company that teach, teaches people visual thinking.
[00:08:23] Jill Greenbaum: And I'm taking all of that with me, meaning my skills into my new business. But people, people are, um, hesitant enough to talk about. Bringing drawing into their work. Even though we know how the human brain works and how helpful it is to have visual cues and explanations and all of that, they are more hesitant to talk about.
[00:08:44] Jill Greenbaum: Dying and death. And so also, I mean, that's where I bring in my appreciative inquiry work and and appreciative living approach to talking about all of our life and how do we live every day more fully. But you're right, it's an absolute pivot. And so I've been working to take [00:09:00] people on that ride with me by showing them how I use visuals, and they know it from the past in my training, my coaching, my facilitation.
[00:09:08] Jill Greenbaum: They've seen my work. And now they're starting to see it in what I'm creating in this new field. So a training program that I just designed, which is about, which is called Live Well End Well, has visuals in it, and it's an approach towards the process that is very values based. Which business can be, but there's not always leading with values when we talk about training in business.
[00:09:33] Jill Greenbaum: Um, so it's not always VA only values based. It's a workbook that I've created that has visuals in it to support the process and to help people create their own if they want to. And that actually. Is a reminder of what I did when I created a coaching program for teens in the college, during the college admissions process.
[00:09:53] Jill Greenbaum: My daughter was going through the process. I thought, she's having an okay time, but this could be better. And I know coaching and I know [00:10:00] education, so let me develop something. So I developed a book. For teens that has great content, which is mostly asking questions so they can understand themselves better, but also visuals to help them sort through the process themselves.
[00:10:14] Jill Greenbaum: And that book became the backbone of my coaching program. It's up on Amazon and still sells. People can do it on their own.
[00:10:21] James Marland: What's the, what's the title?
[00:10:23] Jill Greenbaum: called How to Major In You and Find The Right College.
[00:10:27] James Marland: Oh, that's awesome.
[00:10:29] Jill Greenbaum: Uh,
[00:10:29] James Marland: problem solving benefit driven title
[00:10:32] Jill Greenbaum: yeah.
[00:10:32] James Marland: that like, yeah, that's absolutely perfect.
[00:10:35] Jill Greenbaum: And I loved it. I loved doing it, and I love the option of, people can do it on their own. They can do it with me in group coaching, or they can do it with me individually. And so that's the model that I'm following in making this pivot is that the workbook I'm creating for my pilot is around, you can do this with me in a group.
[00:10:54] Jill Greenbaum: You can do this with me one-to-one, or. It will end up on bookshelves within this year. Um, you can [00:11:00] do it on your own if that's what you wanna do, because some of these things are very private and they choose not to, you know, share with other people,
[00:11:07] James Marland: So there's, there's a lot to talk about. 'cause I, we could probably spend 20 minutes talking about and drawing and we could probably
[00:11:16] Jill Greenbaum: right?
[00:11:17] James Marland: quite a bit of time talking about how do you have these conversations and actually the, the, the content
[00:11:22] Jill Greenbaum: Yes.
[00:11:22] James Marland: of it, I think for, for the audience, as they're thinking about. Hey, I'm a therapist and maybe I'm starting to think into like coaching products or,
[00:11:32] Jill Greenbaum: Right,
[00:11:33] James Marland: workbooks or,
[00:11:34] Jill Greenbaum: sure.
[00:11:35] James Marland: products or even a podcast or some sort of co course. You know, that's a pivot. It's, it's, they'll probably be doing similar things or using some of the, just like you using their experience and knowledge to build on what they're going forward. But that's a, you know, that's a, a major investment, especially
[00:11:52] Jill Greenbaum: Mm,
[00:11:52] James Marland: you earn money doing the other thing. Right,
[00:11:55] Jill Greenbaum: yes.
[00:11:55] James Marland: right. Now, you know, and, and the other thing is just like, I hope I'm gonna [00:12:00] earn money. I think I'm gonna earn money,
[00:12:01] Jill Greenbaum: Right.
[00:12:02] James Marland: passionate about this product and or this, this group of people and I really wanna serve
[00:12:06] Jill Greenbaum: Mm-hmm.
[00:12:07] James Marland: gonna release something that helps them. But there's like a. Like, I don't wanna call it like a, there's a lot of barriers, I guess. Like a comfort zone,
[00:12:16] Jill Greenbaum: Right.
[00:12:16] James Marland: uh, imposter syndrome, uh, like, I don't know how to do these things. Fear, like, did you experience that? And how did you, like what did you do when you were thinking about, man, I think I really need to make a change or add something.
[00:12:32] James Marland: What, what was that like for you?
[00:12:34] Jill Greenbaum: So. Um, I have to say I move kind of intuitively or not kind of. I move very intuitively through my career from choosing a college to, um, education, to moving into training, instructional design and all of that. So it's sort, it's more of a. Sort of a blink situation like Malcolm Gladwell's book, like it's in there and I'm thinking about it a lot, not consciously.
[00:12:55] Jill Greenbaum: And all of a sudden I'm like, this is the thing. And everything is values driven, right? So I've [00:13:00] always been in education, um, and this work into essentially end of life work for me is, um, values driven in spiritual, in nature. So that supports me because I think this is the right thing. But to your point, James, the reality is talking about dying and death is.
[00:13:16] Jill Greenbaum: Difficult in American culture, and that's a big statement, right? But I, I think most people would agree with that, most Americans. And so what I've done is looked at my passion for it and how do I meet people where they're at? And not where I'm coming from. Right? Which is very important, right? 'cause I spend a lot of time thinking about it and all of that.
[00:13:36] Jill Greenbaum: So where are they and what can they hear and how can I approach them? And that's, that's also the hallmark of a good instructional designer, right? Who is your audience? Where they coming from? What do they need? How will they get there? And so that's a piece of it. I've also. Had to think more broadly beyond dying and death to bringing in my appreciative living work, which I've done for a long time.
[00:13:59] Jill Greenbaum: [00:14:00] But sort of put aside because this feels more urgent to me. Um, but I brought it back in because it's another way to bring people in because appreciative living is a whole way of viewing the world, and I'm also starting to work in the areas of grief and loss. Because every one of us have experienced grief and loss, and that's something that people can relate to, and I think it becomes a doorway into having these conversations of working with yourself around what you've experienced and imagine the future, and taking care of yourself and your family so that they will experience what they need to after your passing, meaning grief and loss, but not all the.
[00:14:39] Jill Greenbaum: The fraught nerves around Did, did we make the correct decision? Do we have all the paperwork? How long is this gonna take? I can help people get past that by planning ahead.
[00:14:49] James Marland: So it, it sounds like you're, it, it's a pivot, but you're taking a lot with you.
[00:14:55] Jill Greenbaum: Yes.
[00:14:56] James Marland: you're, you're just building, it's like a, a transformation [00:15:00] or a, a uh, just a metamorphosis,
[00:15:04] Jill Greenbaum: Yes.
[00:15:04] James Marland: of all the stuff that has brought you to this point you're building on your skills and you're probably doing it.
[00:15:11] James Marland: And, and because of who you are, you're doing it different than other people would do it.
[00:15:16] Jill Greenbaum: Yeah, totally agree.
[00:15:17] James Marland: yourself, your authentic self, your, your heart, your mission, but also all your skills, learning experience. You're bringing that all forward with you to, to build on this new product or pivot.
[00:15:31] Jill Greenbaum: Absolutely. And so a good example of that might be that, um, I love using visuals and during, um, as a chaplain in training, I worked in a local hospital during Covid. I. And I discovered there that a lot of people didn't know what a chaplain did. And quite frankly, I didn't either for the longest time, right?
[00:15:52] Jill Greenbaum: And so I would encounter question like, you know, what do we talk about? How do we do this? And so I took my skills as a visual practitioner [00:16:00] and I made a zine. I don't know if you're a zine fan, but that's that cute little booklet that you make yourself. And I created a zine that says, how can a chaplain help you?
[00:16:09] Jill Greenbaum: And it's now up on a, a site used around the world called the Chaplaincy Innovation Lab as a free download. So hospitals, places that use chaplains, people that have an interest in it can discover how a chaplain can be helpful. So that's me just seeing a need, making something small and meeting it and moving on to the next thing.
[00:16:31] Jill Greenbaum: And I think that's a piece of it too.
[00:16:33] James Marland: So let's talk about what, um, the transformation process from the pivoting process. 'cause
[00:16:39] Jill Greenbaum: Sure.
[00:16:39] James Marland: it sounds like you gotta create new, new tools, new resources, new
[00:16:43] Jill Greenbaum: Totally.
[00:16:44] James Marland: Can you just talk about that a little bit? Where, where do you even start? Like how do you even get, get your first person to sign, you know, to look at your stuff and
[00:16:54] Jill Greenbaum: Right?
[00:16:54] James Marland: your course or your pilot course? How do you get started?
[00:16:58] Jill Greenbaum: Sure. And I have to say, [00:17:00] um, it. In a way it's, um, it's in a way it's easy and in a way it's challenging. The easy part is I have a network that already exists of people that know and trust me. Um, and they might be former customers, but they're probably also colleagues and I can reach out to them and say, gosh, I'd love to get your opinion about this.
[00:17:20] Jill Greenbaum: You know, and some of those people are already in this field and so their information is good. But, um. But skewed, right? It's not jaded. It's not tainted, but it's skewed towards, oh, I'm already in this kind of thing. And I also reached out to friends and family, and I reach out to people that have nothing and I don't know how they even think about this and said, look, would you help me?
[00:17:40] Jill Greenbaum: 15, 20 minute conversation, I have six questions I wanna ask you about this. And, and they'll do it because we have a relationship.
[00:17:48] James Marland: of life, like,
[00:17:49] Jill Greenbaum: Yeah, I,
[00:17:50] James Marland: your
[00:17:50] Jill Greenbaum: I,
[00:17:51] James Marland: on end of life,
[00:17:53] Jill Greenbaum: yeah. I gave them,
[00:17:54] James Marland: or whatever?
[00:17:55] Jill Greenbaum: yeah, I.
[00:17:56] James Marland: it sounds like a short, can you help me email?
[00:17:58] Jill Greenbaum: Absolutely. So it [00:18:00] was just a couple of lines that says I'm embarking in this new area. It's about end of life planning and it's not, uh, the paperwork piece, it's not financials, it's not wills, it's not trust. It's about how do you make your plans and how do you talk to your family members and what does quality of life look like to you?
[00:18:15] Jill Greenbaum: And you spend a couple minutes talking with me about how important these are to you and how likely you might be to step into a course like that or a program and, and people did it. And that's where I started. And so I also shared my research with everyone that helped me so they would know what they had contributed to and they could feel it was bigger than just that 15 or 20 minute conversation.
[00:18:37] Jill Greenbaum: And some of those people are actually interested in the program that I'm doing now because they, it stimulated them to think more.
[00:18:45] James Marland: Yeah. Awesome. Um, and, uh, when you follow up, I'm sure you said something like this is, this is the results.
[00:18:53] Jill Greenbaum: Yes.
[00:18:53] James Marland: This, this could be the topic outline. Uh, did you have a conversation with them or did you send an email?
[00:18:59] Jill Greenbaum: I [00:19:00] sent?
[00:19:00] James Marland: you, how did you follow up?
[00:19:01] Jill Greenbaum: Yeah, so that's a good question. Um, what I did was I had sent that original email, the people that agreed, we had the conversation. I followed up with a quick email that said, I would love to tell you about the research, just 10 minutes of time and this is what it looks like. And then, um, if they were interested, which of course I asked, I'm happy to send you, you know, what the outline is looking like at this point in time.
[00:19:22] Jill Greenbaum: Yeah.
[00:19:23] James Marland: Okay. And then, then you can follow up with other
[00:19:26] Jill Greenbaum: Exactly
[00:19:27] James Marland: or like, would you like to talk about it?
[00:19:29] Jill Greenbaum: right.
[00:19:29] James Marland: if they're like super interested, like, whoa, this is exactly what I need
[00:19:34] Jill Greenbaum: Right,
[00:19:35] James Marland: then, then it's just you're, exactly what you need. It's not selling.
[00:19:40] Jill Greenbaum: right.
[00:19:40] James Marland: solving their problem.
[00:19:41] Jill Greenbaum: Exactly. Absolutely.
[00:19:43] James Marland: I love getting to that point
[00:19:45] Jill Greenbaum: Yeah.
[00:19:46] James Marland: you're not like, oh, do you want this?
[00:19:47] James Marland: Oh, I don't know. How much is it? What's going on? Like,
[00:19:50] Jill Greenbaum: Mm-hmm.
[00:19:50] James Marland: like, oh man, you've nailed the problem.
[00:19:53] Jill Greenbaum: Right.
[00:19:53] James Marland: sign up
[00:19:54] Jill Greenbaum: Yeah.
[00:19:55] James Marland: people pay for problem solvers? Like,
[00:19:57] Jill Greenbaum: Absolutely, and to, and [00:20:00] my language as an appreciative inquiry facilitator would be, it's an opportunity to step into something that's important to you and to your circle. And I will say, um, there are a lot of myths out there. Like, oh, Jill, your client base is probably people in their seventies or eighties and, and they're not well.
[00:20:15] Jill Greenbaum: And the answer is no, actually my client base is people in their fifties and sixties who are well and are either thinking of helping their parents and they're not quite sure how to do it or have those conversations or they're thinking ahead for their family because honestly, James right now is given nothing beyond now is given.
[00:20:32] Jill Greenbaum: So we may be alive another two days. We may be alive for another 20 years and we have no idea. And you know, that's, um, that's a fear that's in the back of our head that we don't often think about. Right. And yet, if we can take care of that fear, like I've made my plans, I know what I want my funeral to look like, I know how I want to be buried and what that ceremony is gonna be like.
[00:20:54] Jill Greenbaum: I know where my possessions are going. I've done all my credit card information and you know, all of that [00:21:00] is there for someone to just step into and deal with. Then we've taken a load off of ourselves and we can feel more comfortable with our, you know, what, we're leaving our families.
[00:21:10] James Marland: Yeah. Because if you don't, if you don't have those conversations, if you don't work it out like you're, you're, you're postponing the, the uncomfortable conversations, but you're also delaying yourself the relax, the relief that
[00:21:22] Jill Greenbaum: Mm-hmm.
[00:21:23] James Marland: you get from doing that.
[00:21:25] Jill Greenbaum: Absolutely.
[00:21:25] James Marland: thinking as you were talking about. Um, funerals and like making the, the last several years of your life, you, well, you no, no, no day is promised. And how do you make the most of your time? I was
[00:21:40] Jill Greenbaum: Mm-hmm.
[00:21:41] James Marland: Recently a friend, uh, a neighbor of my wife when she was growing up died and she's like, do you wanna go to the funeral? And I'm like, N not really. Like, funerals are uncomfortable. Or, and I didn't really know them, but I also remember there's a, a phrase in, I think it's in Ecclesiastes, [00:22:00] uh, where funerals are better than parties or something.
[00:22:03] James Marland: So
[00:22:03] Jill Greenbaum: Mm.
[00:22:04] James Marland: like, okay, I know, I know I should, uh, go. Um. And, reason for that is, you know, you just, what you said, you don't, you don't think about you, you don't think about the end of life or you put it
[00:22:19] Jill Greenbaum: Mm-hmm.
[00:22:19] James Marland: and go into a funeral, or thinking about end of life really puts your life in perspective.
[00:22:25] Jill Greenbaum: Right.
[00:22:26] James Marland: gives you like, you number your days or you,
[00:22:29] Jill Greenbaum: Mm-hmm.
[00:22:29] James Marland: you, um, you value what you have.
[00:22:34] Jill Greenbaum: Yes.
[00:22:34] James Marland: and so I went to this funeral and The, the, they talked about the man's life and the good things that he did and what he meant to his family and how consistent he was. He was consistent, you
[00:22:48] Jill Greenbaum: Mm-hmm.
[00:22:48] James Marland: at work, at work, at home, uh, in the community, at church.
[00:22:53] James Marland: Like, just all sorts of like great things.
[00:22:56] Jill Greenbaum: Yeah.
[00:22:56] James Marland: it got me to thinking, you know, he did live his best life.[00:23:00]
[00:23:00] Jill Greenbaum: Mm.
[00:23:00] James Marland: was making a difference with what he had, wherever he
[00:23:03] Jill Greenbaum: Mm-hmm.
[00:23:04] James Marland: he was. And it was just a big challenge. And I'm like. You know what? Funerals are a great reminder
[00:23:11] Jill Greenbaum: Mm.
[00:23:12] James Marland: here forever.
[00:23:13] Jill Greenbaum: Right,
[00:23:13] James Marland: And that your life need, you're, if you live a life that counts,
[00:23:17] Jill Greenbaum: right.
[00:23:18] James Marland: gonna be happier in the pe. You know, you're gonna make the world a better place. And so a product, a product, uh, or a service I guess like yours, really helps people. Uh. Put, put things in perspective and get, get the big things done, get the, uh, important things
[00:23:36] Jill Greenbaum: Mm-hmm.
[00:23:36] James Marland: so that you can leave a legacy and you can,
[00:23:39] Jill Greenbaum: Right.
[00:23:39] James Marland: make those last moments count.
[00:23:41] Jill Greenbaum: It's so true.
[00:23:42] James Marland: Yeah. Yeah. I just wanted to share, as you were talking, I was thinking about, you know, some experiences I had
[00:23:47] Jill Greenbaum: Yeah.
[00:23:48] James Marland: with, with the funeral. Um,
[00:23:50] Jill Greenbaum: And I think, James, if I can, um, piggyback on what you're saying. What's so important about this is what experiences have we had in the past that lead us to think one [00:24:00] way or another about funerals and what do we actually know about the present? Because I have to tell you, in my life experience, my mom who died back in 2008, had a very traditional funeral.
[00:24:10] Jill Greenbaum: That is what she and my dad wanted. My dad died in 2015, and we hadn't talked about. His choices. Um, and um, and quite honestly, I know he would've preferred medical aid in dying than the death that he had, um, and the last few months of his life. And that has made me an advocate in my state of New York for getting medical aid in dying to be legal here.
[00:24:35] Jill Greenbaum: So we, the things that we don't know, like there are things that are called life celebrations that happen before a person dies so that they can celebrate with the people that they care about, and then they don't do a funeral. There are funerals that take place in bars. There are funerals that take place out in fields.
[00:24:51] Jill Greenbaum: I mean, the amount of things that we can do these days, depending on the state you're living in, but there are so many choices that people don't know about, that it can really be a [00:25:00] joyous celebration or it can be very solemn or a memorial or absolutely nothing. And if we don't know what our choices are, how do we make good decisions?
[00:25:09] James Marland: Yeah, and, and I'm just thinking I have three brothers and we're fairly close, but what if we weren't close and one of my parents dies? I'm like, well, I think they would, you know, like it at a church.
[00:25:19] Jill Greenbaum: Right.
[00:25:20] James Marland: like, no, they want it at the baseball field or whatever,
[00:25:22] Jill Greenbaum: Right.
[00:25:23] James Marland: And then we fight.
[00:25:24] Jill Greenbaum: And And that is not a
[00:25:26] James Marland: it
[00:25:26] Jill Greenbaum: right.
[00:25:26] James Marland: 'cause we're in pain and we're grieving.
[00:25:28] Jill Greenbaum: Yes. That's not uncommon. And, and that's what I saw in the hospital during Covid is families that were at loggerheads, well, she told me this. No, she told me this and this was more recent. You know, and we don't want that for our families. Right? We, we can help move that forward with good decisions.
[00:25:47] James Marland: Great. Uh, so you, the part of, part of being the host is like. I have a difficult time because you have such a wealth of information and there's like [00:26:00] lots of great topics to talk about.
[00:26:01] Jill Greenbaum: Um,
[00:26:02] James Marland: this might be a good time to talk about, you know, what, where can people find you and what, what services do you provide and what's, what's your future like? you're still in the middle of your pivot, so what's your future
[00:26:14] Jill Greenbaum: Right.
[00:26:14] James Marland: So let's start first with where can people find you and what do they, what do you offer?
[00:26:18] Jill Greenbaum: Absolutely. So where people can find me is my website, which is my name, so www.jillgreenbaum.com. And to your point, there's a lot of information there because I am mid pivot and do not have that completely new website. So. There's information there about my instructional design work and the Fortune 500 companies I've worked with.
[00:26:41] Jill Greenbaum: There's information there about my visual thinking or visualization teaching and my consulting with a German company, B Kalo, and then there are a number of pages about my end of life work and the work that I do plus. At this point, my newest course that I was talking with you about is a hidden page because I'm giving that up to [00:27:00] people I know, or on social media.
[00:27:01] Jill Greenbaum: So other people aren't gonna see that yet until the website is redone. So it really, it's juggling a lot of different things to think about, how do I stay where I am to continue to make the money that I have been making so that I can do the work that I wanna do in the future and close that down by the end of the year.
[00:27:20] Jill Greenbaum: You know, and so shift into that new piece. And so the services that I offer would be, uh, in part of the question that you asked would be the program that can be done either individually in a group or presumably by the fall, the book will be up on a bookshelf and you can do your own work. And this is about live well end well and planning for where you are.
[00:27:42] Jill Greenbaum: And it uses an appreciative inquiry model to address those questions, which is very supportive. Forward looking, and so of course there's also coaching that I do around these kinds of things. If you just also need a place to talk and to make your plans before you're ready to step into [00:28:00] this.
[00:28:01] James Marland: That's wonderful. Um, it's such a needed service.
[00:28:05] Jill Greenbaum: Mm-hmm.
[00:28:07] James Marland: we had a conversation with some family members and, and nobody knew what they were doing. We didn't know what to talk about. It was just sort of like. Dropped on our lap with no preparation.
[00:28:17] Jill Greenbaum: Right.
[00:28:18] James Marland: So, uh, like it was sort of like deer in the headlights.
[00:28:22] James Marland: Okay. That happened sort of conversation. And then there was a little bit of confusion at the end. Did they really say this? Did this really happen? So anyways, I can definitely see the, the need for this and, and the problem that it solves and the benefit that it gives to people
[00:28:37] Jill Greenbaum: mm.
[00:28:37] James Marland: they engage with their loved ones on the, this. This topic that we, that we really need to talk about.
[00:28:45] Jill Greenbaum: Yeah.
[00:28:45] James Marland: it, you're not gonna solve it by, by not talking about it and not addressing it. So,
[00:28:51] Jill Greenbaum: Absolutely.
[00:28:53] James Marland: man, Jill, you've been a great guest. Thanks so much for being on the show. And, uh, where can people find one more time? Where can people find, uh, [00:29:00] these resources?
[00:29:01] Jill Greenbaum: Sure thing, James. Well, my. Website is my name, Jill Greenbaum, so jill greenbaum.com. And I have to say what a pleasure to talk about this. I love the opportunity to share and to talk and to help people get a broader understanding to begin to consider this work. And the good news is, aside from my website, there are so many resources out there.
[00:29:19] Jill Greenbaum: Just begin to look, they're there. As soon as you start looking.
[00:29:24] James Marland: Thanks so much, Jill. thanks for listening to the show. It's now time to put your mission in motion.
